Which is most dangerous: Dark Narc, Euphoric Narc, or "I'm just dumb" narc?

[Wetsuit 4 life]

Most times it's the happy narc, but on this dive to 135 ft for the first time at that depth. I some what remember standing by a drop off thinking that my flashlight was going to explode or I was going to fall off the edge.

Good times

 

[Dockmaster]

I've been narced twice; once happy, once dark. Both happened at dephs greater than 90 feet. Both times, I understood what was happening and took corrective action. By far, the dark narc was much, much worse. After each episode, I talked it over with my buddy and tried to figure out what might have caused it. From what I can gather, both episodes were brought on by going deep too fast. In the case of the dark narc, there were also a few added stressors thrown in and then an unexpected event at depth which pushed me over the top.

 

[Wetsuit 4 life]

0-100ft: Mild impairment, mild euphoria

100ft: reasoning & immediate memory affected, delayed reaction

100-165ft: laughter, idea fixation, overconfidence

165ft: hallucinations, sleepiness, impaired judgment

165-230ft: Terror, talkative, dizziness, uncontrolled laughter

230ft: Severe impairment of intellectual performance

230-300ft: Mental confusion, sounds seem louder, gross delay to stimuli

300ft: Hallucinations (similar to drug induced) impairment of memory, judgment, loss of intelligence

 

[shoredivr]

As you can clearly see from my post I do believe in narcosis. I clearly state that it does exist. I just don't get caught up in all the "dark narc", "happy narc", "funny narc" etc. stuff. I can't even tell you how many times I have read on here how people claim to be "narced out of their mind" at 50ft, 60ft, etc. when just about every study I have ever read shows that effects from narcosis doesn't even begin until you are around 90 to 100ft and then for most people those effects are minimal if they are there at all.

I've also read on here where new divers will post questions about narcosis and wonder if they are going to enjoy the "happy narc" feeling but then have to fight through the dreaded "dark narc" feeling. They make it sound like some kind of battle from Star Wars. They get all worked up and nervous and some people even become afraid of trying to dive a little deeper for fear of narcosis.

The idea that a person's state of mind can increase the effects of narcosis is covered in this study.

All About Narcosis...
"Group One was taught that a diver would get narcosis at 130 fsw, and much emphasis was placed on the extremely high probability of narcosis with SEVERE symptoms. Group Two was taught of the existence of narcosis, the symptoms and depths of occurance begining at 100 fsw, but were not subjected to an intimidating lecture, as in Group One, that narcosis was an absolute barrier. Group Three was well educated on narcosis with three full hours of lecture on symptoms, risk, danger and known research. They were told that divers with strong will power as postulated by Miles (1961) could mentally prepare themselves and greatly reduce the effects."


Maybe some of the posters you're referring to in the underlined bit above may have entered a kind of "Group One" state of mind through gathering expectations of what narcosis is like through reading on-line.

Or perhaps they are diving in cold and/or low-viz situations. I dive in cold dark water in Ontario, and have been noticeably narced on some deeper dives (+120 ft), which consisted of checking my SPG every 10 seconds or so and having to check it again because I couldn't recall exactly what it said. Come up ten feet or so and memory mysteriously returns....

Your diving is in warm, clear Caribbean waters, and you say that the effects of narcosis on you have been so slight as to be minimal. Perhaps the dive environment is the main issue. To test that hypothesis, try some cold, dark diving....let me know how it goes .

 

[cfenton]

...I do appreciate the fact that you questioned my post rather than just calling it dumb and I was able to explain further my thoughts/ideas...But calling a post like that dumb would serve no purpose even if it seems dumb at first glance.

It's still dumb after the second glance and your subsequent explanations. There is no more point in debating with you the existence of nitrogen narcosis in every diver than there is the existence of evolution, or the fact that the sky is blue for that matter.

It has been my observation that very few divers ever experience any real symptoms of narcosis to the point that they can tell something is different with them. If they have any effect at all from narcosis, it is so insignificant that it's not a danger during a dive.

This is the reason I am being belligerent. You may be lacking the experience to recognize the symptoms of narcosis in yourself and your dive buddies, and you may be diving in environments where the symptoms are less noticeable, but they are still present and potentially dangerous. To state otherwise is simply ignorant or irresponsible.

Here is a good place to start if you truly want to educate yourself on narcosis...but no selective perception:

The Rubicon Foundation: Home

 

[BDSC]

The idea that a person's state of mind can increase the effects of narcosis is covered in this study.

All About Narcosis...
"Group One was taught that a diver would get narcosis at 130 fsw, and much emphasis was placed on the extremely high probability of narcosis with SEVERE symptoms. Group Two was taught of the existence of narcosis, the symptoms and depths of occurance begining at 100 fsw, but were not subjected to an intimidating lecture, as in Group One, that narcosis was an absolute barrier. Group Three was well educated on narcosis with three full hours of lecture on symptoms, risk, danger and known research. They were told that divers with strong will power as postulated by Miles (1961) could mentally prepare themselves and greatly reduce the effects."


Maybe some of the posters you're referring to in the underlined bit above may have entered a kind of "Group One" state of mind through gathering expectations of what narcosis is like through reading on-line.

Or perhaps they are diving in cold and/or low-viz situations. I dive in cold dark water in Ontario, and have been noticeably narced on some deeper dives (+120 ft), which consisted of checking my SPG every 10 seconds or so and having to check it again because I couldn't recall exactly what it said. Come up ten feet or so and memory mysteriously returns....

Your diving is in warm, clear Caribbean waters, and that the effects of narcosis on you have been so slight as to be minimal. Perhaps the dive environment is the main issue. To test that hypothesis, try some cold, dark diving....let me know how it goes .

Good post and I totally agree with you. I have read that study and it was quite interesting how your mind can play a role in how you view things. And most of those new divers that are nervous or fear narcosis more than likely have read or heard of some of the extreme stories about what can happen to you. It's almost as if they are programed for it to happen.

My diving is pretty much just warm ocean waters like you said so that's where my experience begins and ends. That's why I said in one of my posts that my observations come from that type of environment. My experiences may be totally different in the diving environments of which you speak. Don't know. I have dove in our local quarry several times with not so good vis and it was cold but I think we only went to maybe 50ft max. But that was cold enough for me to know that type of diving wasn't my thing. But I take my hat off to you folks who like it.

 

[bleeb]

Here is a good place to start if you truly want to educate yourself on narcosis...but no selective perception:

The Rubicon Foundation: Home

Many moons ago (years?), there was a posting somewhere here on SB by a military hyperbaric researcher. I think it described some research they did, possibly with dry dives in a chamber, that found most people were measurably impaired at depths that were well within rec limits (<100'), but that didn't feel they had the gross symptoms most people call being narced.

I've tried with no success searching for this post to find out if my memory is at all accurate. Anyone remember it?

 

[Tortuga68]

My deepest dive so far is 60m. I've done single 55m & 50m dives and multiple 40-50m dives, and lots of 30m plus dives. I look forward to going deeper in the future

Part of my AOW course was doing a 35m dive (which I'd done before, and never felt narc'd) and doing some simple math additions on my slate at the bottom

While I completed most of the math without error, it took me much longer than it would have on the surface (maybe partially due to paranoia about getting such simple excercises wrong), and I made one simple mistake that I would never have made on the surface. In other words, I was narc'd at 35m

On my subsequent, deeper dives, I have experienced:

1. Euphoria - could have been dangerous as I didn't pay as much attention as I should have to time/depth/gas, because I was too busy going "la la la this is awesome!" and didn't really care much about the details of the dive plan

2. Paranoia - could have been dangerous if I panicked, and distracting in any case

3. Visual halucinations/tunnel vision - more unpleasant than anything else; I've had the early symptoms on a few dives, but on my 55m dive, after 10 minutes of it gradually getting worse (started with blurred peripheral vision, which narrowed, finally got purple lights in the centre of my vision) at which point I waggled my hand and pointed to my eyes and we came up about 15m and I felt better

4. Auditory halucinations (Jungle Drums/things sound louder) - not really dangerous, but could again distract you from other more important things (time/depth/gas/plan)

Bottom line, narcosis is real and unavoidable if you dive beyond whatever depth it is that your individual physiology starts to cause the symptoms - IMHO it's about recognising it for what it is and dealing with it appropriately, and experience

In summary, and not to fan the flames, but I would vehemently disagree with any statement that said the effects were not noticeable or significant - I base this not only on my own experiences, but on those of my friends and fellow divers

 

[String]

Part of my AOW course was doing a 35m dive

You see it quite a bit in threads on here - its amazing how many AOW courses seem to breach agency standards substantially regarding depth.

 

[boulderjohn]

If you were to ask me if I felt I had ever been narced, I would say no, I have never felt that I was narced, but I know that is a deception. Here is an example:

I was with my buddy and a guide in a wreck at Truk Lagoon, and the guide led us through a hole in a bulkead. As he went through, I saw a pipe sticking down like a finger in the upper right corner, and I saw that it would be very easy to snag the regulator hose on it. My buddy went through ahead of me, and he did indeed snag his hose. He pulled it down to free it and went through.

When I went through, I felt a tug and realized that despite my previous observations, I had gotten snagged as well. At that time, two questions came to my mind:

1. Which hose was caught?
2. Do I pull it up or down to free it?

As I asked these questions, I at least had the presence of mind to think, "These are really easy questions. I should know the answers. I must be narced!"

But I felt perfectly fine. If I had not snagged the hose and gone totally stupid, I would have never thought I was anywhere near narced.