Who is concerned about OW diver training?

[Cave Diver]

That's a phrasing I'm coming more and more to dislike.

My driving skills are entirely inadequate for driving on a race track, or baja, or for doing hill climbs, but they are not lacking at all for driving on my prosaic daily commute.

Adequacy is determined by application. Of course an non-cave diver's skills are inadequate for cave diving. If they weren't what would be the point of teh course?

I'm not saying people are not qualified for the environment they came from. I'm saying that when they're shown a new bar, many begin to realize they're not the diving god they thought they were up until that point.

Just because I don't drive a race car doesn't mean I'm not a decent everyday driver. And just because I drive every day doesn't mean I'm a good driver either. If you want proof of that, think of how many people you curse under your breath on the way to work every morning.

 

[InTheDrink]

If you want proof of that, think of how many people you curse under your breath on the way to work every morning.

I curse a lot of people, mainly drivers. Of course that's cos I'm a cyclist and they're clearly trying to kill me (bastards). I'm not sure it's proof of anything.

I'm not sure anyhow what KingP is driving at. I dislike creating division's as much as the next person but I do think that a lot of the key skills in diving apply across the board and even given my pretty innocent level of diving experience I am pretty cautious to ascribe ability according to qualification. Of course a lot of that is cos I don't have much of the qualification part, but even exempting my own vanity, I am not sure qualifications are a great measure of proficiency.

J

 

[TMHeimer]

The poll is flawed by design.

Those that don't read won't see the poll, and those that read but don't participate probably won't vote.

I'm surprised there isn't an option for "I don't read and I don't participate and I never vote in polls"

idocsteve, You'd win that "most annoying" poll. But that's a good thing. Love the shark animation-just have to keep looking at it don't you? We had a guy similar on the Clarinet Forum-great stuff. See you're from L.I. -- A native of Yonkers, I enjoy your posts. Here's one- I think we need a poll to vote for PADI Master Diver vs. NAUI Master Diver. This would be a new topic worthy of many posts...

 

[Cave Diver]

I curse a lot of people, mainly drivers. Of course that's cos I'm a cyclist and they're clearly trying to kill me (bastards). I'm not sure it's proof of anything.

My idea to assigning "proof" is in continuing the driving analogy. Ask anyone you know and a good portion of them will probably tell you they're an above average driver. Ask those some people what they think of other drivers on the road and a good portion will likely say "they're all idiots and can't drive!"

Just because people do something on a regular basis (driving to work) doesn't necessarily make them proficient at it. In fact, we could probably argue that many of them are poor drivers because they are distracted by drinking coffee, putting on makeup, etc.

Enroll the majority of them in some sort of advanced driving program and they'll likely find that they aren't as proficient as they originally thought.

 

[Jax]

My idea to assigning "proof" is in continuing the driving analogy. Ask anyone you know and a good portion of them will probably tell you they're an above average driver. Ask those some people what they think of other drivers on the road and a good portion will likely say "they're all idiots and can't drive!"

Just because people do something on a regular basis (driving to work) doesn't necessarily make them proficient at it. In fact, we could probably argue that many of them are poor drivers because they are distracted by drinking coffee, putting on makeup, etc.

Enroll the majority of them in some sort of advanced driving program and they'll likely find that they aren't as proficient as they originally thought.

Ahh, but to continue your analogy of driving, is it not true that all states have different standards, and test different things?

Some states teach drivers to go for the middle or left lane of the interstate and stay there so others can get on and off easily. Others teach that slower traffic stays right, and that once you are done passing you go back to the right lane (Europe teaches that). Some states don't test for 3-point turn-arounds, or for parallel parking.

Some states don't even require in-car training in their drivers ed. It's all stuck on the parents.

Yet all are licensed to drive. One could say it is the state (agency) that matters, others would say it is the parents, yet more would say it is the individual classes.

So, should we have a national standard?

 

[idocsteve]

idocsteve, You'd win that "most annoying" poll. But that's a good thing. Love the shark animation-just have to keep looking at it don't you? We had a guy similar on the Clarinet Forum-great stuff...I enjoy your posts.

Thanks. I wish the admin would increase the size restrictions on the avatar file. I have some great ideas for frame sequences to add to it.

 

[Lobstah Slayah]

To continue with the driving analogy, It greatly depends on the agency and instructor and their standards. When I took my license test in Maine, I had to parallel park on a hill in the snow between two close cars, drive all though the city and do about every skill that I had learned to that point. When I moved to Florida, it was a much different test. It involved leaving the parking lot, a three point turn and returning to the lot. Different instructors different skills and standards. If I had just taken the Florida test, I would have been shocked by how thorough the Maine test was. Diving is much the same way. You don't know, what you don't know unless your training is top notch. I realized very quickly that there is a lot more to diving than I'd been taught.

 

[Lobstah Slayah]

Thanks. I wish the admin would increase the size restrictions on the avatar file. I have some great ideas for frame sequences to add to it.

As much as I hate to complement you, that is a very cool avatar.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Not if you're one of the members of this board who hang out on the off topic threads with a handful of others that don't seem to have that much going on outside of this board, and you keep thanking one another for every post that is made even if it's just something like "Hows everybody doing today".

 

[RJP]

For the purpose of this poll, I'd consider both of these to fall under the Advanced/experienced divers category.

So are you TRYING to start a debate on how many dives one needs to become a DM, or do I have to wait for the next thread to come along?

:cool2: