Will they EVER LEARN?

[jbd]

this is my question: how do we reach these people going into overhead (without
a minimum of training) before they do just that?

There is a video out titled,"A deceptively easy way to die (or something close to that) I think MikeFerrara showed that video during his OW courses? I've seen the video and it gets the point across.

 

[GDI]

a thought:

taking GDI's question literally... how is an open-water diver going to find out,
without going there himself, that overhead is an easy way to leave your family and
friends mourning your untimely passing?

i know that there are the grim reaper signs and the warnings, and also the warnings
in OW classes not to go into overhead... but is this enough?

this is my question: how do we reach these people going into overhead (without
a minimum of training) before they do just that?

possible answer: ban all OW divers from any dive site where they can go
into overhead?

Andy; Restrict access is an idea yes but not practical, not anymore and nor am I in favour of it. Pandora's box has been opened. When you look at places like Ginnie, Blue Grotto, Paradise, Devils Den these are all privately owned springs. To close them to all but Cavern and above certs would hurt their businesses (it is a money thing), it would also limit the many different training sites we as instructors have available. I am not crazy about non-certed divers playing in the cavern zones but we have developed a mind set that the cavern zone is okay for OW divers to play within be it within limited conditions/restrictions. State parks are open to the public for example. They, the parks have laws regarding the carrying of lights and this still does not have a 100% success rate. Many of these privately owned springs I mentioned above, in fact all of them have ropes set up as permanent guidelines, they have waivers and grim reaper signs and blocking bars or gates where applicable, they have videos explaining how the OW divers are to access these sites and the rules they need to follow. Having read and signed the waivers, watched the videos these divers still ignor what they just heard and seen. Luckily they also have a low incident/accident rate, today we/they were lucky. The owners of these sites do check c-cards but they can't tell from the card what to expect of the diver in responsibility or the actual skill level that diver has, not the diver as a person. I use these sites as training spots and I would not want to see them restricted as you mentioned, of course because I am a certified full cave instructor and I can take divers on a "Cavern Tour" what you suggest would not impact me I guess as long as I follow the rules of my agencies and the dive site. Even with this ability it would only produce a selected few mentality and would again not be good. I don't believe that this could solve the issue, recent events have shown that. I don't know what to do either, other than to be more explicit about this type of diving environment and the risks involved and to be more vigilant in stopping such possiblities. These sites can be dived quite safely. The sites are doing what they can and it is reasonable. It really comes down to the individual diver doesn't it?

 

[GDI]

There is a video out titled,"A deceptively easy way to die (or something close to that) I think MikeFerrara showed that video during his OW courses? I've seen the video and it gets the point across.

Yes there is a video and a paper with that name.
Really now think about it, it doesn't take any skill to "enter/penetrate" a cavern, cave, or a wreck


the real skill is coming back OUT!

 

[Derek S]

It really comes down to the individual diver doesn't it?

Agreed. If a diver is dumb enough to do something like that, then they do deserve to die. That being said, their friends and family don't deserve to be robbed of a loved one simply because they are morons.

Cheers on saving them though.

 

[H2Andy]

It really comes down to the individual diver doesn't it?

yes, ultimately it does, doesn't it

another down-side of a blanket ban is that it would also restrict access to the
safety-conscious, OW divers who stay within the cavern limits and are aware of the danger.

 

[GDI]

I don't look at this as though I saved them but rather that maybe I planted a seed of consciousness, a point of safety in which tonight they will wake up and realize what happened

 

[OneBrightGator]

There is a mention of overhead environments in PADI's OW book (it may be in others, but I'm not familiar with them) and I would imagine any OW class in cave country discusses the dangers at length, I know I do with my students. It's all about knowledge, if you show them what they need to go cave diving, especially training and why, then they're more likely to make the logical decision.

 

[RonFrank]

Thanks for sharing. These are the types of posts that newer divers (like myself) can REALLY take to heart. While I am NOT foolish enough to want to dive past my limited training, I appreciate the reminder, and it was an interesting read.

Thanks
Ron

 

[RonFrank]

There is a mention of overhead environments in PADI's OW book (it may be in others, but I'm not familiar with them) and I would imagine any OW class in cave country discusses the dangers at length, I know I do with my students. It's all about knowledge, if you show them what they need to go cave diving, especially training and why, then they're more likely to make the logical decision.

I was fortunate to get a MI certified by PADI (Also Instructor level certs NAUI, and DAN). I was rather surprised at how little of the book we went over in detail (classroom study was most outside the classroom) but the the area's that we DID spend a LOT of time on were DCS, Tables, and safety. In hindsite, that was very appropriate and a good use of the limited classroom discussion time.

Cave diving was mentioned as a BIG no no for non certified cave divers, and that was stressed several times as was the dangers of going to deep without proper training, diving currents, etc.

Unfortunately some people don't learn until something goes wrong, and in the case of diving it can be fatal.

Ron

 

[Mark Vlahos]

Rick,

Good job, my compliments to you on your decisive action.

I remember when we went down there, wasn't that the same place we went on a similar profile to the dive you were doing on this dive? The video, the grim reaper sign, the waiver, all make it clear that a standard open water diver should NOT go past that point. When we took the dive I remember you discussing the fact that we would go no deeper than the sign even though you as a full cave instructor could take me beyond. That was our plan and we dove our plan.

I also remember when we were at Blue Grotto and you demonstrated how easily one can create a silt out, and how completely screwed up it makes visibility, and we both had HID lights, with backups.

On both of our dives we were the only ones in the water at the time and we had plenty of air (both on doubles) so it was an appropriate teaching tool to show me what some of the dangerous situations look like. A silt out is not somthing to be taken lightly, nor is being narcd at depth, nor in a cave without a line. Yikes, as I type this I get more concerned for the safety of the other team you saved.

Again Rick, good work.

Mark Vlahos