Spearfishing with a rebreather

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Notice to one and All:

Rebreathers are NOT legal for spearfishing in Federal Waters in the South Atlantic EEZ. I read an earlier post that says they're still legal un the Gulf but this surprises me since it was at the time of regulation, supposed to be banned in both. Back in the beginning of the modern movement toward recreational rebreathers we (yes, Denny and Rich, that would be me, Jay Jeffries and a couple of others) went to the Feds and the State of Florida and successfully got them to ban rebreathers for spearfishing. Further, the State banned them for ANY harvesting of living resource without an SAL. They are also illegal to use to collect tropical fish and invertebrate species in Federal waters adjacent to the State of Florida since the state manages marine life for both state and Federal waters off the Florida coast. The reasons were quite simple to understand.

1. Safe use of these units requires much more attention to maintenance, cleaning etc and from a commercial fishing point of view and most recreational divers, people do not tend to devote the time necessary to prevent deaths due to equipment failure.

2. The stealth capability of the gear would make it far too easy to approach fish or lie in wait for a shot at a targeted fish, thus increasing the risk of localized stock depletion.

3. The greatly extended bottom time allowed would also result in the problems cited in #2.

At the time we also received a written endorsement for our request from one of the most respected underwater cameramen in the world who works exclusively with rebreathers in his job, that being Bob Cranston.

In the years since there have been a number of deaths with rebreathers, mostly due to the nature of the beast. I do know that one death occurred off Broward County when collector was illegally collecting Bank Butterflies on a deep wreck off of Pompano. There was a potential shark attack involved but I haven't heard whether all the bites found on the recovered body were post-mortem or not. More recently another rebreather diver died while illegally spearrfishing in southeast Florida. Either way, if the they hadn't been breaking the law they wouldn't have died.


Biminibill
 
Biminibill:
Notice to one and All:

<<<skip several paragraphs of "I know better that everyone else and it is my duty to protect the world">>>>>>

Either way, if the they hadn't been breaking the law they wouldn't have died.


Biminibill

Lack of maintenance (or abundance of stupidity for that matter) is not limited to people breaking the law, to say that this people would be alive if they followed the law is a huge load of excrement.

YOU don't believe that using a rebreather for collecting/hunting marine life should be done. Accordingly you claim to have been instrumental to the implementation of a law. Fine, I don't agree with you but I'm too lazy to fight that law, so I'll follow the ridiculous law (it isn't the only questionable law I follow) However, to claim that some idiot died because he broke that law is almost as ridiculous as the law itself.
 
I agree with Ana. These people may well have died using this equipment, even without hunting. No way to know & you post on this is nothing more than mere speculation. We have plenty of people dying with them who are not hunting at the time. They haven't been nick-named Death Boxes for nothing.
 
Biminibill:
Notice to one and All:


1. Safe use of these units requires much more attention to maintenance, cleaning etc and from a commercial fishing point of view and most recreational divers, people do not tend to devote the time necessary to prevent deaths due to equipment failure.

What are you trying to say about recreational divers? If they are trained on the rebreather, they are trained to maintain the equipment.



In the years since there have been a number of deaths with rebreathers, mostly due to the nature of the beast. I do know that one death occurred off Broward County when collector was illegally collecting Bank Butterflies on a deep wreck off of Pompano. There was a potential shark attack involved but I haven't heard whether all the bites found on the recovered body were post-mortem or not. More recently another rebreather diver died while illegally spearrfishing in southeast Florida. Either way, if the they hadn't been breaking the law they wouldn't have died.

Are you suggesting that these people lost their lives because they were breaking the law, don't we lose rec, tech, cave, and rebreather divers every year due to various reasons. I have never read a DAN report citing breaking the law as a cause of death.

Biminibill


I don't care if people use rebreathers or not, as long as they don't take more than their daily catch limit. My question is why you would have anything to say about it. You approached it like you care about human life, but your statement about them losing their life because they were breaking the law tells me that you have no sympathy for the divers or families.
 
Human brain ~4 lbs
fish brain somewhat less than that
Is it ever really that challenging?No matter what methods are used?

It's harvesting food.Is it any more ethical to eat anything you didn't kill or grow?Of course it doesn't matter.Does it really matter if an animal is killed by a car,bullet,spear, lethal injection or by someone else?Not to me,as long as appropriate regulations and humane methods are followed.

I have no problem with any animal being killed by any legal,humane,sustainable method so long as the population is sustainable at the current rate of use.

We have to get past our regional prejudices,ignorance,mis-information:shakehead: (among other things) before we can ever be sophisticated enough to form a valid opinion based on facts.This applies in a lot more areas than just diet.
 
Biminibill:
Notice to one and All:

Rebreathers are NOT legal for spearfishing in Federal Waters in the South Atlantic EEZ. I read an earlier post that says they're still legal un the Gulf but this surprises me since it was at the time of regulation, supposed to be banned in both. Back in the beginning of the modern movement toward recreational rebreathers we (yes, Denny and Rich, that would be me, Jay Jeffries and a couple of others) went to the Feds and the State of Florida and successfully got them to ban rebreathers for spearfishing.

Congratulations on a very selfish act. :shakehead:

Biminibill:
Further, the State banned them for ANY harvesting of living resource without an SAL. They are also illegal to use to collect tropical fish and invertebrate species in Federal waters adjacent to the State of Florida since the state manages marine life for both state and Federal waters off the Florida coast. The reasons were quite simple to understand.

1. Safe use of these units requires much more attention to maintenance, cleaning etc and from a commercial fishing point of view and most recreational divers, people do not tend to devote the time necessary to prevent deaths due to equipment failure.

Thanks for being a watchdog for all RB divers. Maybe we should just stick to open circuit where there are no deaths at all.

Diving Accidents

Biminibill:
2. The stealth capability of the gear would make it far too easy to approach fish or lie in wait for a shot at a targeted fish, thus increasing the risk of localized stock depletion.

You're kidding, right? Do you know how many rebreathers there are out there? It's a small world buddy and most of them don't care about spearfishing; it's deep wreck and cave.

Biminibill:
3. The greatly extended bottom time allowed would also result in the problems cited in #2.

Have you ever heard of limits?

Biminibill:
At the time we also received a written endorsement for our request from one of the most respected underwater cameramen in the world who works exclusively with rebreathers in his job, that being Bob Cranston.

In the years since there have been a number of deaths with rebreathers, mostly due to the nature of the beast. I do know that one death occurred off Broward County when collector was illegally collecting Bank Butterflies on a deep wreck off of Pompano. There was a potential shark attack involved but I haven't heard whether all the bites found on the recovered body were post-mortem or not. More recently another rebreather diver died while illegally spearrfishing in southeast Florida. Either way, if the they hadn't been breaking the law they wouldn't have died.

I'm so glad we have people like you looking out for us. Thanks Bill. This is just what we need; more government intervention. Maybe I can get the car you drive banned because it's dangerous.


Biminibill:
Biminibill
 
Biminibill:
Notice to one and All:

Rebreathers are NOT legal for spearfishing in Federal Waters in the South Atlantic EEZ. I read an earlier post that says they're still legal un the Gulf but this surprises me since it was at the time of regulation, supposed to be banned in both. Back in the beginning of the modern movement toward recreational rebreathers we (yes, Denny and Rich, that would be me, Jay Jeffries and a couple of others) went to the Feds and the State of Florida and successfully got them to ban rebreathers for spearfishing. Further, the State banned them for ANY harvesting of living resource without an SAL. They are also illegal to use to collect tropical fish and invertebrate species in Federal waters adjacent to the State of Florida since the state manages marine life for both state and Federal waters off the Florida coast. The reasons were quite simple to understand.

1. Safe use of these units requires much more attention to maintenance, cleaning etc and from a commercial fishing point of view and most recreational divers, people do not tend to devote the time necessary to prevent deaths due to equipment failure.

2. The stealth capability of the gear would make it far too easy to approach fish or lie in wait for a shot at a targeted fish, thus increasing the risk of localized stock depletion.

3. The greatly extended bottom time allowed would also result in the problems cited in #2.

At the time we also received a written endorsement for our request from one of the most respected underwater cameramen in the world who works exclusively with rebreathers in his job, that being Bob Cranston.

In the years since there have been a number of deaths with rebreathers, mostly due to the nature of the beast. I do know that one death occurred off Broward County when collector was illegally collecting Bank Butterflies on a deep wreck off of Pompano. There was a potential shark attack involved but I haven't heard whether all the bites found on the recovered body were post-mortem or not. More recently another rebreather diver died while illegally spearrfishing in southeast Florida. Either way, if the they hadn't been breaking the law they wouldn't have died.


Biminibill

The ignorance and stupidity of the human species never ceases to amaze me
 
I will say this. Most of the posts condemning our actions years ago to keep rebreathers out of the hands of spearfishermen and condemning the points I made in my previous post are by people who completely missed the reality of the situation. You show no true understanding of how fishery problems develop with gear that makes things too efficient and show a "can't see the forest for the trees" mindset about both this and the safety issue. I could sit here for an hour and pick each one of your arguments apart but I won't bother. The law's in; the law will stay in; I'm content with that. You want to challenge it? Take your best shot. You'll lose.

As for "not caring for the families of the lost divers" what does this have to do with the argument? No one wishes these people to die and no one is happy about it but it doesn't change the fact that these people died on rebreathers while breaking the law. This they did, and stating that is independent of whether one has sympathy for their families. As for being "selfish", first, since I gain nothing financially or any other way from rebreathers being banned for spearfishing and live collecting I don't understand the "selfish" label. Secondly, if you had a crystal ball that let you look at both scenarios you might be able to see the divers today happily loading up their OC equipment to go spearfishing who otherwise would be in a box now due to a rebreather mishap. You might also see the Feds and the state crawling all over the fishery, the sport and rebreathers in general due to too many mishaps. Any of you who try to equate the level of risk of heavy task loading (like spearfishing) on OC to heavy task loading on closed circuit don't know the animal at all. Ignorance is bliss but also dangerous at times.

Enough......you proven my point in spades. Happy safe diving.


Biminibill
 
bill you seem awful blissful,full of hate too.sorry.
 
Enough......you proven my point in spades. Happy safe diving.


Biminibill


Well, it seems like you've proven a couple of points too.

I guess we, the ignorant, should be grateful to the likes of you.
 

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