Bahamas: Missing Female Diver

[vladimir]

Speculating this early in an investigation doesn't do anyone any good.

I disagree. If we discuss the possibility that she was overweighted, say, it will have precisely the same educational value whether she was or not. If we discuss the rescue scenarios, maybe somebody will learn what an air siphon is.

Why don't we sit back, wait for the facts to come out and form our opinions then?

What facts are likely to come out? Perhaps they'll recover the body and we'll have a computer. What will that tell us that is likely to shed more light on the incident? If we get new facts, or if we get corrections to the "facts" we have, we will collectively adjust our speculation, which can also have instructive value.

Jumping to uninformed conclusions certainly will not solve anything

We are unlikely to solve anything here in any accidents thread.

or help prevent a similar incident in the future.

I disagree.

 

[stevejaz]

That's sad. I'm assuming new/inexperienced since they hired a DM.

I have to say that if I have to chase a diver down on their way past 100' into the Great Blue Beyond, once I get to "pushing away" distance, someone is coming back to the boat with me. And I don't think I know anybody who wouldn't do the same.

Something important is missing here.

Terry

That's a good point, however, I know at least one of the DM's there that is a female was quite petit and I doubt even 5' tall, but a real firecracker. The other was actually my instructor and she was great, definitely very particular about following set guidelines. Neither of which were the DM in the story I relayed earlier and for their sake I hope not the one involved in this story as I'd feel really bad for them, as I do for the victim of course.

 

[Splitlip]

I disagree. If we discuss the possibility that she was overweighted, say, it will have precisely the same educational value whether she was or not. If we discuss the rescue scenarios, maybe somebody will learn what an air siphon is.

What facts are likely to come out? Perhaps they'll recover the body and we'll have a computer. What will that tell us that is likely to shed more light on the incident? If we get new facts, or if we get corrections to the "facts" we have, we will collectively adjust our speculation, which can also have instructive value.

We are unlikely to solve anything here in any accidents thread.


I disagree.

I am all for this type of discussion. Does not matter what ultimately is the cause. It makes for good informed intercourse and discussion. May save a life.

If I go in, post your grievences on the other forum and have at it here. May save a life.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

....At approximately 10:45 am, a female diver was observed descending the wall, which drops from a 35' reef depth to an estimated 6,000'. A dive master retained by the diver/husband attempted to stop her descent at approximately 100', and was seen pushing the DM away and continuing her descent....

So we now have two threads running regarding fatalities involving divers under supervision of DM's who, one way or another, were unable to prevent a fatality.

The other thread: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/283416-diver-death-cayman.html

This case appears even worse because it appears that the DM had direct supervison over the victim and let her get away.

The other case involved the DM was leading a group and simply did not keep track of the new diver/victim.

Just based on that info, there are still things to be learned from these incidents (for DM's, dive ops, and new vacation divers).

So even though we will likely never get the complete story in either case, I do think both incidents are worth poking and prodding a bit, even with the minimal info we have.

Best wishes.

 

[DandyDon]

Right on! If I go down, speculate it all you want here in hopes it helps someone else. I'm record saying that in the "If I die" thread and in my daughter's desk.

That's a good point, however, I know at least one of the DM's there that is a female was quite petit and I doubt even 5' tall, but a real firecracker. The other was actually my instructor and she was great, definitely very particular about following set guidelines. Neither of which were the DM in the story I relayed earlier and for their sake I hope not the one involved in this story as I'd feel really bad for them, as I do for the victim of course.

Those DMs are welcome to post here should they choose to do so. I doubt it'll happen.

I remember a petite gal in my Rescue class. Good course for any diver serious about learning. She was taught like us all: get behind, take control, use your tools. A girl half my size gets control of my tank valve, not much I can do about it but hope she has good intentions.

I don't know enough to criticize the DMs, don't mean to, but - I do wonder? Also wish we did have more real info on the divers, etc.

 

[Cave Diver]

What say we try to quote things in context?

I wasn't trying to quote, I said "I learned..."

It's not that hard, you can use a link: link or just cut and paste a multi-quote of the posts:

Thanks, now I've learned two things.

It should not be a big deal for a tropical instructor who's been there even just a few months.

Dunno. I recently learned in another thread that a quick bounce dive to 200' to recover a diver [-]is no problem [/-] should not be a big deal for an instructor that's been in tropical location for more than [-]6[/-] a few months...

Ok, now it's closer.

 

[Splash-X]

An Instructor was alerted and descended to a depth of approximately 170', where he could see a bubble line starting below him.

Another thing to think about is at what point, as a DM or Instructor, do you consider your saftey above that of the certified diver you're leading? Rescue turns to Recovery very quickly and without the proper gear on site a rescue may not have been possible.

How long in to the dive did the accident take place? This is an important aspect to determine how much gas the diver in question may have had. That leads to the question, how long did it take the instructor to reach 170ft. That leads to, what is the likelyhood that the rescue had turned in to a recovery.

 

[Cave Diver]

Another thing to think about is at what point, as a DM or Instructor, do you consider your saftey above that of the certified diver you're leading? Rescue turns to Recovery very quickly and without the proper gear on site a rescue may not have been possible.

How long in to the dive did the accident take place? This is an important aspect to determine how much gas the diver in question may have had. That leads to the question, how long did it take the instructor to reach 170ft. That leads to, what is the likelyhood that the rescue had turned in to a recovery.

That's a good point that was brought up recently in the other accident thread. I believe it was Thal that mentioned the value in a diver having a personal limit, decided before hand that they felt comfortable with when helping another diver. It's not a decision you want to make under stress.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

That's sad. I'm assuming new/inexperienced since they hired a DM.

I have to say that if I have to chase a diver down on their way past 100' into the Great Blue Beyond, once I get to "pushing away" distance, someone is coming back to the boat with me. And I don't think I know anybody who wouldn't do the same.

Something important is missing here.

Terry

I agree completely. The story doesn't add up without additional details. A divemaster should be able to release the diver, get behind them, grab the valve, inflate their own Bc, kick like hell and haul a disoriented diver from 100 (or 200) up to 50 feet or so and then make another attempt to gently convince the diver to ascend.

I used to see some dive guides use a backpack and no BC and it always scared me because I felt that they lacked the reserve bouyancy to physically haul someone up from the depths in an emergency.

 

[Splash-X]

That's a good point that was brought up recently in the other accident thread. I believe it was Thal that mentioned the value in a diver having a personal limit, decided before hand that they felt comfortable with when helping another diver. It's not a decision you want to make under stress.

I think at the next shop meeting I'm going to bring this question to the table. Whil leading a dive, to what extent should we go to rescue a diver? I'm not talking just let someone go off and do something crazy, but in this case, if I was the instructor at 170ft, what would the dive operator expect of me, what would I expect of myself and what do our customers expect from us?

I've been on boats before where they clearly tell us, if we start to swim down the wall, the DM will only be able to follow us so far/long before they have to give up for their own saftey.