Octo on bungeed necklace?

[halocline]

You are in an environment that requires thought, training and equipment to survive.
Eliminating a possible risk is all the basis in reality you should need.

Actually, it's about balancing risks. There is your fantasy-land risk of choking on your bungie necklace, and then there's the real world risk of having to locate and use your alternate, possibly while your hands are otherwise occupied. I know which one of these I would choose. Given your reference to thought and training, I'm sure you realize that training for diving in risky environments like caves and wrecks universally includes using an alternate on a bungie necklace.

You can defend your point of view till you're blue in the face, but reality still will not support it. Thousands and thousands of technical dives in a gear configuration that has become standard, and never a single case of what you say is a "hazard."

 

[RAWalker]

My Deco instructor used a bungeed backup.
My Trimix instructor used a bungeed backup.
My Intro cave instructor used a bungeed backup
My Full cave Instructor used a bungeed backup.
Everyone I dive with uses a bungeed backup.

I often dive a low viz lake with submerged trees.Snagged pretty much everything else at one time or another but never the bungeed backup.

The system just works. It does not cause problems.

So you just didn't get the lesson your parents tried to teach you
Just because they do it shouldn't mean that you should.
You snagged everything else I guess you are due then.

 

[ptyx]

I think the choking concern is more of a phobia than anything real.

If concerned by chocking, one could use a breakaway necklace design: small o-ring behind the head, or insert a section of line of different thickness in the necklace with reef knots - whatever makes you feel better.

I don't use the octo-on-necklace system, but if you do, how about having two necklaces of different color, a short one for the primary and a longer one for the octo? That way you're unlikely to be in missing regulator situation.

You would also be unlikely to donate air quickly - and a buddy grabbing at any of them before you can donate (likely in OOA scenario) would be trouble.

The main reason for the necklace is not to avoid loosing your regulator (it's on a hose after all, it won't run away very far) - but to stow it in a convenient place.
If you decide you want to donate your primary, the necklace is a good solution for the secondary because it allows to reliably and easily switch to it with any hand (or even without), and keeps it out of the way of the rest of your gear. It isn't for a primary because it prevents donating it (even ignoring the mess two necklaces can create).

Another aspect of the necklace I like is that the secondary is somewhat hidden behind/below the primary - if a panicked divers reaches for one of your regulators, it will most probably be your primary as it's the one in front and with happy bubbles coming out of it. Which is exactly what you want. (You do NOT want a bright yellow cover on your secondary if you use the short hose/necklace configuration).

 

[RAWalker]

Actually, it's about balancing risks. There is your fantasy-land risk of choking on your bungie necklace, and then there's the real world risk of having to locate and use your alternate, possibly while your hands are otherwise occupied. I know which one of these I would choose. Given your reference to thought and training, I'm sure you realize that training for diving in risky environments like caves and wrecks universally includes using an alternate on a bungie necklace.

You can defend your point of view till you're blue in the face, but reality still will not support it. Thousands and thousands of technical dives in a gear configuration that has become standard, and never a single case of what you say is a "hazard."

I don't need to support my point of view any further. I'm not the only one this prospective since PromoCop brought it up first be sure there are others that feel the same way.
Standards change as newer ideas are presented along with new equipment designs.
I've seen integrated octos catch on with popularity and I do believe it is a trend that will continue.
Yes, I am aware that training for diving overhead environments includes both long hose primary and a bungie secondary am also aware although the bungie Octo is the suggested gear for these environments it is not a requirement and it is far more important that your buddy or team be familiar with what is actually in use and that you all be using similar setups.
Maybe it is time to set up a dive team using high quality integrated Octos and long hose primary to prove the point that they are just as safe when properly trained.
Actually the integrated octo setup has less failure points so just as safe may not be the case.

 

[ianr33]

My Deco instructor used a bungeed backup.
My Trimix instructor used a bungeed backup.
My Intro cave instructor used a bungeed backup
My Full cave Instructor used a bungeed backup.
Everyone I dive with uses a bungeed backup.

I often dive a low viz lake with submerged trees.Snagged pretty much everything else at one time or another but never the bungeed backup.

The system just works. It does not cause problems.

So you just didn't get the lesson your parents tried to teach you
Just because they do it shouldn't mean that you should.
You snagged everything else I guess you are due then.

O.K. Will be blunt here.

I personally dived with all the above instructors. They all have thousands of dives. Deepest as far as I know was 450 feet. Longest around 5 hours.

You are an Openwater diver I have never met with less than 100 dives and a lot of internet opinions.

Who should I listen to?

 

[mkutyna]

I've seen integrated octos catch on with popularity and I do believe it is a trend that will continue.
Maybe it is time to set up a dive team using high quality integrated Octos and long hose primary to prove the point that they are just as safe when properly trained.
Actually the integrated octo setup has less failure points so just as safe may not be the case.

Having not used an integrated octo before, how do you vent from your wing while breathing off the octo? Sure you can use the pull dump at the base of the wing but we're not always oriented in a position that it would let air out.

I do have experience servicing integrated octos and I can say that they are easily the most frustrating type of second stage for me to service. Additionally, if you end up with a sticky inflator button (something that actually does have a chance of happening btw) then when you disconnect the QR you are now left with a useless integrated octo.

 

[promocop]

and so it goes...

 

[mkutyna]

And so what goes? I don't understand the contribution you're trying to make to the discussion.

 

[muddiver]

Primary isn't on a necklace, if it needs to be removed for any purpose other than sharing air its clipped off to the chest d-ring(deco gasses, etc), or you lean and sweep to recover it. Having it on a necklace defeats the purpose of your buddy being able to grab it from your mouth in an OOA situation.

This is from the guy who could not find his primary? Which should have been stuffed securely in his mouth.

 

[Clammy]

This is from the guy who could not find his primary? Which should have been stuffed securely in his mouth.

I too am confused as to how one loses their primary underwater. Even if for some reason someone did (in a drill or something), that's why the secondary is bungied. You can just tip it into your mouth!