Long hose for a new diver

[DCBC]

I don't know if this is a typo on your part or if you really haven't the slightest clue what we're talking about in this thread....but the long hose goes on your primary regulator (the one you give away in an OOA emergency) and your back-up goes on a 22" hose with a bungeed necklace, where your back-up regulator sits under your chin for easy access (so you have something to breathe after you give your long hose away in an OOA emergency).

A diver should not be surprised by an OOA situation. Good communication with your Buddy prevents this. It's regulator problems that can't be unforseen.

I use a standard length hose for my primary 2nd stage (a long hose isn't needed and could be a hazard) and utilize a second regulator for a back-up on a long hose that's available to give my buddy. Students are taught NOT to give away the primary 2nd stage to another diver in an emergency; the secondary is there for that purpose. I train divers to buddy breath on one 2nd stage & by utilizing the secondary octopus for sharing air. The diver should be aware of the situation and hand the secondary octopus to the diver in-need.

The octopus secondary is often a different color (yellow) and is for use as a secondary and not a primary air-source for the diver. Hose lengths of 27"-32" are common for a recreational primary second stage and 40" is common for the octopus hose, to be used as back-up and OOA scenarios.

It seems like you have it the other way around. This is however a suggested method for DIR enthusiasts, but it's not followed by the industry at large. Look at the PADI advertisement at the top of this page ("perhaps it's you that really hasn't the slightest clue about what we're talking about in this thread....").

 

[Gombessa]

What specific disadvantages does standard length hose have in the open water?

I didn't say there were any.

 

[Teamcasa]

I believe the numerous advantages, especially with proper training, vastly outweigh the disadvantages

I didn't say there were any.

I guess I'm wondering what you meant by this then.

 

[Teamcasa]

How about the typical new diver scenario, where with standard length octo, they are so close to each other that they are not swimming smoothly, and often impeding each other's kicks...this will create stress in some divers that would be easily avoided by the comfortable swimming separation possible with a 7 foot primary as the donated reg.

While you might suggest that all they need to do is to go staight up, there is often some swimming that needs to occur. Not to mention they must get to the boat...or to the shore.

This thread was from a new diver interested in a long hose set up, for good reasons....why is it so threatening to the short hose crowd?

Dan V

I and I don't think anyone else is or even feels threatened in any way. The question was asked, I offered my opinion, such as it is. You and a few others disagree and that's the beauty of Scubaboard, opinions and thoughts are shared, the reader benefits.

BTW, Nicole (ligersandtions) is a wonderful person and a pretty darn good diver. Many people will benefit from her advice.

 

[Gombessa]

I guess I'm wondering what you meant by this then.

Here's what I wrote:

Especially for newer divers or those who have never seen the configuration, a long hose has distinct advantages and disadvantages. I believe the numerous advantages, especially with proper training, vastly outweigh the disadvantages (which is why I use a long-hose), but I've always advised newer divers to not simply switch to a long hose...

The advantages of the long hose outweigh the disadvantages of the long hose. I never mentioned anything negative about short hoses. It doesn't make sense to read the statement as the advantages of a long hose outweighing the disadvantages of a short hose.

 

[ligersandtions]

I guess I'm wondering what you meant by this then.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he's saying that the advantages of the long hose vastly outweight the "disadvantages" of the long hose.

Edit: Gombessa beat me to it, but I'll leave it anyways!

BTW, Nicole (ligersandtions) is a wonderful person and a pretty darn good diver. Many people will benefit from her advice.

Thanks Dave! It's nice to see that we can disagree about things but still remain civil and friendly (I wish more threads were like this!).

FWIW, a standard length hose can (and does for many people) work fine in OW. A long hose can (and does for many people) work fine in OW. One of the advantages of a long hose, if applicable, is that it does prepare a diver (by developing muscle memory) for how they will need to dive in overhead or single file situations. This may or may not apply....but if you have technical aspirations, it's good to get this method well established in your diving.

 

[Teamcasa]

Got it! Thanks - sometimes I'm just not all that sharp..

Here's what I wrote:

The advantages of the long hose outweigh the disadvantages of the long hose. I never mentioned anything negative about short hoses. It doesn't make sense to read the statement as the advantages of a long hose outweighing the disadvantages of a short hose.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he's saying that the advantages of the long hose vastly outweight the "disadvantages" of the long hose.

 

[Gerbs]

Just thought I'd chime in belatedly, as a passionate long-hose diver.

There are two things:
primary donation vs. secondary donation
and
How long is the hose on the reg I donate

Donating my Secondary:
+ No need for me to swap regs

- donating a potentially silted up reg
- having to find said reg (where is it clipped, is it still clipped?)
- finding a way to reliably clip the sodding thing to myself (haven't found a way, but magnetic clips seem to work for others).

Whereas donating my Primary (the one I am breathing out of until just now):

+ Known Working Regulator given to diver with the most pressing need of gas
+ Known position of regulator for me & buddy (most people breathe through their face while diving, after all...)
+ necklaced regulator is easy to find for me
+ necklace (Bungee-cord+two cable ties) works for retention, can be pulled apart if needed and costs naff all.

- I have to be able to swap regulators on short notice

So, for me, the question of donating my primary compared to my secondary is a moot point. You get the reg I've been breathing out of (if you haven't already helped yourself). If you insist on grabbing my secondary, feel free, I'll cope. As a thought: If you cannot cope with having your reg taken from you at random times, how are you going to cope if someone kicks it out of your face through inconsiderate finning at inopportune times?

Now, how long is my donated hose?

Short:
+ Easy stowing of hose
+ diver near me through design
- Me & other diver are effectively entangled

Long:
+ can give other diver time and space to sort problems out
+ can swim easily side by side
- must stow hose somehow (unless doing the "DIR-Wraparound")
- must consider controlling distance

Now, if I donate my primary (see above), then I can deal with the stowage issue, by doing the "DIR-Wraparound", turning my primary 1st stage to send the 210cm/7' hose downwards, tucking it in under my BCD (I dive with a Seaquest ProQD, tucking the hose in underneath works well without needing to spend money on a lamp), bringing it around my gut, over my left shoulder and around my head with a swivel (90° elbow would do just as well, though) to feed me from the right. No, I don't wear a snorkel, that's what god gave you BCD pockets (or, French CMAS only: Knife-holding bungees on your ankle) for. For stowing my rig on the surface, a bolt-snap tied to the hose allows me to clip my primary to the necklace of my secondary and a random d-ring on my BCD to stop both 2nd stages dragging. The relatively stiff hose doesn't snag that easily. An additional advantage of the 'round the neck' thing is that you have ZERO pull on your reg, however you turn your head, as there is enough slack in the hose. On a short primary, usually, you either have restricted turning to your left (the hose runs out eventually, if not set up right), or you have a huge loop of hose to catch off your shoulder (if it's long enough and not hi-flex hose).

So, if you are diving with me, I'll be giving you my Abyss/MR22, and you can sort yourself out, I'll breath my Proton ICE/V32 in the meantime.

This is, incidentally, explained to the CMAS* course candidates here in pretty much the same way, and *everyone* I have lent my regs to (Sherwoods - what we have as club loaner regs - are good, always give you air, but some people just don't like breathing them, and if I have a cold and can't dive, I'll lend anything of mine that works to anyone who asks) has spent the €35/$50 extra a long hose and a swivel for the primary. I wonder why.

As an aside: single first stages effectively expire your insurance diving in cold water in Germany. Even in summer, the thermocline at 20m / 66' will bring you in contact with sub 10°C (50°F) water. You can dive with single 1st stages, but why do you want to be ridiculed and ostracised for an extra €109 ($158), which is the price of a plain DS4 around here, I don't know, especially with other risks involved. With two 1st stages and routing the primary downwards, stowing the hose is no issue.

Valve drills for turning your own regs off are a different kettle of fish altogether... And to reassure the purists - my Proton Ice necklaced secondary has no swivel or similar excessive failure points; it is my backup, after all.

Gerbs

 

[captron]

I am trymix certified & basic cave my wife liked the 5ft. hose & neclas so much that she changed hers over. she even had me get her the spring fin straps.

 

[vjanelle]

This thread was from a new diver interested in a long hose set up, for good reasons....why is it so threatening to the short hose crowd?

Dan V

Too many people in the DIR crowd calling people 'strokes' has people jumpy No one likes being told they're "doing it wrong", or that they need to spend $80 on a hose that's 7' long. Even if you're not coming off that way, people will sometimes interpret it as such.

I (now) dive a 7' hose after trying to do the rescue course and share air with 40"... A lot easier. Deploying is fairly quick (duck head while pulling hose out, making sure to offer it the right way 'down' so it doesn't flood, and the vents don't flood with every breath). There was a comment earlier about someone bolting to the surface with your reg? Back kick/drag/etc, they'll pivot in the water pretty fast or the reg'll come out of their mouth. You should strive to be in control of the reg if they're panicking in any event.