UTD vs. GUE

[TSandM]

As someone who has taken classes from both agencies, I think you'll get very similar training from either. There are small differences in procedure and gear configuration, but nothing that precludes people trained by one agency from successfully diving with people trained by the other. (And this is commonly done in lots of places.)

UTD Essentials and the GUE Primer are non-certification classes that introduce DIR gear configuration and basic skills. Intro to Tech and Fundies for a tech pass are similar, except UTD ITT introduces bottle-handling skills. I think they do this because they're kind of assuming Essentials or similar training or experience, whereas Fundies has been the entry level class for GUE for a long time, until the recent development of the Primer.

Where it gets more different is at the Tech level. GUE jumps from Fundies to Tech 1 (150 ft, 21/35 and 50%, up to 30 minutes of deco). UTD goes to their Tech 1, which is a 25/25, 130 foot class with O2 deco up to 15 minutes. It's a little less stressful class, designed for folks who don't really want to do deep dives, but would like to do some deeper recreational dives properly planned with staged decompression. I took it, and it was a good decision for me, especially as I have repeatedly struggled with GUE classes the first time through.

I should mention that UTD teaches almost exclusively Ratio Deco, whereas GUE uses DecoPlanner with multiple kludges, and RD as a backup.

Given that location isn't a big issue for you, and you're not trying to stay consistent with a team or community of other divers, I think you should find an instructor you click with and do whichever class they teach.

 

[BigBubbaJ]

I am fortunate to live in Colorado, where here we have Rob Calkins (GUE) and George Watson (UTD) both actively teaching.

I opted to go with UTD for my Intro to Tech, and George is a fantastic instructor.
I am planning on taking UTD Tech 1 after my Intro to Tech. I have really found that George is doing a great job of building a UTD community in the Rocky Mountains.

None of this is saying GUE isn't doing all these things. It just so happens that a lot of us drive down to New Mexico to dive, and George and the UTD Team always seemed to be there the same time of the month as me staying at the same hotel even, so I had an opportunity to learn about UTD and the program and the Team and knew going into it all that it fit me nicely.

I am more personally interested in Tech/Wreck stuff as opposed to caves and UTD is a really good fit. I love the way they break the classes up and I am looking forward to taking Overhead Protocols at some point.

Justin

 

[rjack321]

Given that location isn't a big issue for you, and you're not trying to stay consistent with a team or community of other divers, I think you should find an instructor you click with and do whichever class they teach.

Numero uno, I would work on developing your local buddies. The reality of both programs is that both absolutely require a "team" to really dive "DIR" and make the skill sets fit into an appropriate context. There are definately GUE and UTD divers in NC, mostly cave divers, but some tech divers too. You can find them at the dive matrix, the deco stop, thetechdiver, and here in the DIR forum.

You aren't going to have much success flying off to a distant instructor with either agency and then coming back to NC and trying to apply what you've learned absent some regular buddies with similar motivations.

If you are cave oriented I would go with GUE. Tech oriented I would chose UTD. If your aspirations are unclear, I would start by ordering the UTD "Essentials" DVD which gives and overview of the personal skills. Share that with your recreational buddies and try to build yourself a posse.

 

[Peter Guy]

Good points rjack.

 

[kanonfodr]

<snip>

You aren't going to have much success flying off to a distant instructor with either agency and then coming back to NC and trying to apply what you've learned absent some regular buddies with similar motivations.

Bingo. I did my UTD Essentials training in Cali, and while we have a few DIR divers here on Oahu, I'm the weak link in the chain when it comes to dive training, equipment redundancy, ya know...diving skills in general. Kinda puts me off on diving with them. I wouldn't mind having a similarly trained and experienced team to dive with. It gets frustrating sometime.

Peace,
Greg

 

[rjack321]

Bingo. I did my UTD Essentials training in Cali, and while we have a few DIR divers here on Oahu, I'm the weak link in the chain when it comes to dive training, equipment redundancy, ya know...diving skills in general. Kinda puts me off on diving with them. I wouldn't mind having a similarly trained and experienced team to dive with. It gets frustrating sometime.

Peace,
Greg

Isn't Sockmonkey on Oahu? Eric Brager in real life. Not sure he's on this board, you can find him on DMX. He's fun to be around in general and to dive with. Intro to Tech level with BDub from pre-UTD days, but you should look each other up if you haven't already. edit: sorry big Is

 

[TGreene]

I too am currently faced with the daunting task of trying to put together a local "team" to take the classs together, whether it be UTD or GUE.

While I already have the instructors lined out (depending upon which route we choose to go), I'm finding that the willingness of other divers to seriously commit is actually far less than what they say... Kinda like when all your friends "offer" to help you move, yet on moving day none of them shows up or even answers their phones!

I consider myself very fortunate to have met SeaJay, who introduced me to DIR diving and the GUE philosophy... He's become my "long distance" mentor and I've even had the opportunity to travel to do several working dives with him.

-Tim

 

[Rick Inman]

You aren't going to have much success flying off to a distant instructor with either agency and then coming back to NC and trying to apply what you've learned absent some regular buddies with similar motivations.

A couple years after my out-of-town fundies class, I put together a local class, had the cost for the divers include bringing the instructor out (he lodged at my house), and convinced my PADI LDS to let us use the classroom. It worked out great and really helped to bring the team diving mind-set to our diving community.

And oh yeah. I didn't retake the class but shot the class video, so I've still never passed fundies.

 

[fisheater]

Isn't Sockmonkey on Oahu? Eric Brager in real life. Not sure he's on this board, you can find him on DMX. He's fun to be around in general and to dive with. Intro to Tech level with BDub from pre-UTD days, but you should look each other up if you haven't already. edit: sorry big Is

He's on the Big Island, Kohala Coast.

 

[rjack321]

A couple years after my out-of-town fundies class, I put together a local class, had the cost for the divers include bringing the instructor out (he lodged at my house), and convinced my PADI LDS to let us use the classroom. It worked out great and really helped to bring the team diving mind-set to our diving community.

While I already have the instructors lined out (depending upon which route we choose to go), I'm finding that the willingness of other divers to seriously commit is actually far less than what they say... Kinda like when all your friends "offer" to help you move, yet on moving day none of them shows up or even answers their phones!

Sometimes you just have to arrange the class and get deposits to "make it happen" like Rick did. There are a ton of good "DIR" cave and wreck DVDs on the market. If you get a few of those and have a party to watch them along with the Essentials DVD you might get some umph going.