Potential problems with Divemaster class

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tenover, the work requirements are going to vary with the type of operation through which you are doing your DM, and perhaps a bit what your goals are.

For my DM, I assisted with classes -- that meant I showed up at the academic sessions twice a week, helped issue equipment to the students and solve problems. I sat through the lecture sessions, corrected quizzes and knowledge reviews, and helped students get their gear to their cars. At the pool, I helped carry gear and supervised gear assembly, and I then dove with the class. Afterwards, I'd go back to the shop and help check in the class equipment, rinse it and hang it up. These days began about 6pm and ended at midnight, and that was Monday and Wednesday of each of three weeks.

On the weekends when we did OW dives, I went to the dive site, helped put in the float and line, and helped move gear and supplies for the class and get them set up near the beach. I helped students with their equipment. I was sometimes asked to do the site briefing. I dove with the classes, then helped students swap out tanks and supervised to make sure they stayed warm and were okay. We did the second dive, and then I helped everybody get their stuff back to their cars, and brought back in the float and the extra weights and all the supplies we'd unloaded. These days began about 7am and ended around 2 to 3 in the afternoon. This was one day of each of two successive weekends.

Other than that, I was not expected to work for the shop, but I did my DM through a local dive shop here in Seattle, not a residential program like some of the DM classes in Asia are.

To the OP -- I have a vague memory that I was unable to assist with classes as a DMC until I had completed some of the academics -- I'll have to go review the standards, but that's what I remember.
 
To the OP -- I have a vague memory that I was unable to assist with classes as a DMC until I had completed some of the academics -- I'll have to go review the standards, but that's what I remember.

The important thing to remember about a DMC assisting in class is that a DMC is NOT an official assistant. The only thing that matters in legal terms is the number of instructors and certified assistants.

I know very specifically of a case in Mexico in which a dive operator saved a few dollars by having a DMC assist in a class instead of a DM. After the students had descended on an OW dive, the instructor surfaced with a student who was having a problem, leaving the rest of the class in the hands of the DMC. When one of the other students died, it was legally the same as if she had left them unattended.
 
Oh, yes, I know you don't count to ratios (in fact, you count against them). But I vaguely remember that I wasn't even supposed to dive with students until I had completed some of the academics. As I said, I need to check the standards.
 
To the OP -- I have a vague memory that I was unable to assist with classes as a DMC until I had completed some of the academics -- I'll have to go review the standards, but that's what I remember.
The OP should check his own copy of the standards for the DM course and review the instructor's interpretation of the standards. If the DMT is participating in the regular student courses as part of his practical application, then there might be a problem if none of the KRs have been completed thus far. Here is what is published in the 2012 IM:
Sequence1. Knowledge Development Topic 1 – The Role and
Characteristics of a PADI Divemaster precedes all
water sessions – exercises, workshops, assessments and
practical application.
Note: This instructor-delivered presentation is required even if the
candidate completes Divemaster Online.
2. Knowledge Development Topics 2 and 3 – Supervising
Certified Divers and Assisting with Student Divers
precedes all Practical Assessments.
3. Knowledge Development Topic 5 – Divemaster-Conducted
Programs should precede Divemaster-Conducted Programs
Workshops.

---------- Post Merged at 08:47 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:46 AM ----------

To the OP -- I have a vague memory that I was unable to assist with classes as a DMC until I had completed some of the academics -- I'll have to go review the standards, but that's what I remember.
The OP should check his own copy of the standards for the DM course and review the instructor's interpretation of the standards. If the DMT is participating in the regular student courses as part of his practical application, then there might be a problem if none of the KRs have been completed thus far. Here is what is published in the 2012 IM:
Sequence1. Knowledge Development Topic 1 – The Role and
Characteristics of a PADI Divemaster precedes all
water sessions – exercises, workshops, assessments and
practical application.
Note: This instructor-delivered presentation is required even if the
candidate completes Divemaster Online.
2. Knowledge Development Topics 2 and 3 – Supervising
Certified Divers and Assisting with Student Divers
precedes all Practical Assessments.
3. Knowledge Development Topic 5 – Divemaster-Conducted
Programs should precede Divemaster-Conducted Programs
Workshops.
 
To the OP -- I have a vague memory that I was unable to assist with classes as a DMC until I had completed some of the academics -- I'll have to go review the standards, but that's what I remember.
The OP should check his own copy of the standards for the DM course and review the instructor's interpretation of the standards. If the DMT is participating in the regular student courses as part of his practical application, then there might be a problem if none of the KRs have been completed thus far. Here is what is published in the 2012 IM:
Sequence

1.
Knowledge Development Topic 1 – The Role and
Characteristics of a PADI Divemaster precedes all
water sessions – exercises, workshops, assessments and
practical application.
Note: This instructor-delivered presentation is required even if the
candidate completes Divemaster Online.

2. Knowledge Development Topics 2 and 3 – Supervising
Certified Divers and Assisting with Student Divers
precedes all Practical Assessments.

3. Knowledge Development Topic 5 – Divemaster-Conducted
Programs should precede Divemaster-Conducted Programs
Workshops.
 
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Was just reading the PADI instructor manual too but it could be all about interpretation. Being air force, I can tell you that things can be turned in to their favor. Here are the issues I see. If the op is paying for the dives, the shop could easily claim that he wasn't conducting any of his training since they haven't done any of the academics. Also the sequence can be interpreted as just the sequence of what order to do the knowledge and not the entire course. I feel for the op. I hate when students are taken advantage of. I helped plenty during my time as dm and never got paid but I NEVER paid for air or boat dives. That was my instructor taking care of me. He didnt have to pay for my boat spots or tanks but I didn't have to either. I also do everything I can to take care of any divemasters helping me during classes. If I can't pay them for the day, I at least pay for the boat and pay for food and they almost always ride with me unless they don't want to. It shouldn't cost my Divemaster to help me EVER! I hope that the op gets his certification. If you didn't sign some kind of contract and they don't give you any referral credit, i would definitely put their name out there and take them to people's court cause I would like to meet that hot Latina Judge. :). I had a lot of loyalty to my old shop until I felt like they were taking advantage of me or my students. Once that happens, loyalty to your students/customers is much more important. Also just remember this, they won't have any issues throwing you under the bus if this starts getting bad for them. They have no loyalty to you. They just want your money and free labor from the sounds of it.
 
Ah, I just read it a little closer. I have a feeling they will use the "we thought he was just divin for fun" argument since he can't help until certain knowledge assessments are done.
 
I think it's interesting that it's the academic portion that keeps getting pushed back/put off. It really doesn't take that long to get through... especially since it sounds like you already have all of the knowledge reviews done. If you're the only one that needs to do it, an instructor should be able to get through all of it with you in a few hours as long as you don't get too off track. I'm going off of my experience with PADI so the programs for other agencies might be slightly different... and I'm also used to a shop that has instructors crawling out of the woodwork :shakehead: So a smaller shop that's working at full capacity during the summer might have a harder time freeing your instructor to do this, but it sounds like you are willing to be available at pretty much any time... That's kinda weird to me that your instructor can't sit down with your a couple weekday nights to get through it right away.

Some good points about your liability were also raised... When I went through it, we were constantly reminded of all of the things we couldn't do as a DMC for liability reasons (be left alone with students, work with certain pieces of equipment, etc). I'm not actually sure where my standards manual is at the moment, but I'm also pretty sure that some of the KRs and practical applications were supposed to be completed (with the instructor) prior to interning. I know my shop won't let DMCs work the compressor for that reason since they wouldn't be covered under the shop's insurance if anything happened. I respect that you're not quick to turn over your shop, and since you posted this in the first place, your instincts obviously told you that something was off, but I would make sure that your own ass is covered while you're working.
 
I have emailed my instructor outlining the fact that I we need to go over my knowledge reviews (which we have failed to look at at all and I have been in the class for over a month), he says acedemics will come in time and I am to continue studying my course materials. He was also prepared to offer me more work assisting with more open water classes this weekend. The fact that we will not be going over my actual DM classwork disapoints me but I will use the opportunity this weekend to discuss my issues and hopefully develop a positive level of communication where we can start working on my class itself and stop the continuous assisting with OW divers. Of course assisting with classes is im sure part of the curiculum, I still feel that my own acedemics should be reviewed, especially after I have already been doing class work for over a month. I hope things go well this weekend, its looks like I have some hard work ahead of me but keeping a positive outlook is all I have left now.

First of all you are a paying customer and you can ask for and pretend to receive the service you are paying for. SO my Academics first, then water skills and further training. All unpaid work you are doing, especially because it is unrelated to your DMC, like rinsing vans etc. is at your own discretion. If I were you I would trade my spare time for money and extra services, e.g. free dives, boat rides, equipment etc.
I do not know what agency you are affiliated with, but out of the top of my head PADI requires DMC to complete at least some part of the academics. I think knowledge reviews 1-2 and water skills before helping with OW classes. May be you want to double check the standards.

Final consideration: The DM certification does not depend on all the stuff you are doing at the dive shop, but it certifies that your skills meet some requirements. So in extreme case, in general after a decade of qualified professional activity, a DMT can be done in a few days if you are able to meet all requirements at highest standard. So if I were you I would consider your story as a qualifying life experience toward your DM and at the same time a lesson on how to relate with LDS and instruction facilities. So both if you can work out a solution with your current instructor or get a plan to quit this program, get your paperwork done and move somewhere else it won't be so dramatic, because you are not loosing what you learned.

I hope you'll figure out a good solution.
Happy diving.
 
I can't speak to this situation as an experienced diver or former DMC, but I can speak to it from the POV of someone who has worked for many different places before I settled down:

This shop is just waiting for you to quit. In fact, they are setting you up so that you do quit. They don't want to kick you out since you have paid the $$, but they do want you to walk away. If you are hoping that if you show that you are loyal, hard working, and will do whatever they say you will get a job with this shop when you complete the course, you won't. You need to take your folder, find a different shop with whom you can build a relationship and who wants you around. This happens in life. Not every relationship works out. If the shop had more integrity, they would sit you down, explain why things are moving so slowly, and help you figure out a strategy for completing the course with a different shop.

I realize that this is speculation derived from only words on a computer screen, but I have witnessed this as a restaurant worker, shop employee, ski instructor and teacher. You will grow from this experience. Best of luck and I hope you complete your DM soon.
 
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