How bad is it if an LDS calls you an “internet diver”?

[redacted]

I'm just saying don't go in and waste a bunch of the lds's time with no intention of buying there, just trying and the go home. For example if you see a new mask that you think you will like, don't go to the lds and try it on and then turn around and go home and order it from leisure pro since they have it for $55 dollars instead of the $60 that the lds wants to charge. In my opinion it is worth the $5 difference for the convince of being able to try / hold in your hand before you buy. Now if the difference is $50 I would ask for their best price and then go buy online. Don't allow yourself to be ripped off, but give the lds a chance to earn your business. In this case if someone talked to me like the OP was talked to, they would never earn another $0.01 of my money even if I had to drive an extra hour just to get air.

Well, I do agree with your example. If you shop at an LDS, you should be willing to purchase from them. But what about when you find a mask online for $50, total, and you go in your LDS and find the same mask for $75? Is it OK to try it on? Can you ask the shop to match the $50 price? I think you can. How about you?

 

[luscioman]

I have 2 LDS that have salepersons that are not divers. So if I am an internet diver what do you call an employee that is not a diver at a dive shop?

 

[Tigerman]

I have 2 LDS that have salepersons that are not divers. So if I am an internet diver what do you call an employee that is not a diver at a dive shop?

Tank monkey...

 

[RandomGuy1]

Well, I do agree with your example. If you shop at an LDS, you should be willing to purchase from them. But what about when you find a mask online for $50, total, and you go in your LDS and find the same mask for $75? Is it OK to try it on? Can you ask the shop to match the $50 price? I think you can. How about you?

I for sure would ask for a price match, and if they came close buy from the LDS. If they stick to their $75 I would buy online. I try to support my LDS, but I don't want to overpay either.

 

[MrChen]

I typically decide I want something when I'm not at the dive shop. I almost always look online, search for reviews, and check prices. My LDS is 2 minutes from my work, so next I'll swing by there to see if it's something have and get their feedback. If I don't like what I hear or see, I just go get it online. If I like what I hear and the price is close, I'll buy it right there and then at the LDS.

I spent a few hundred dollars at my LDS just the other day. Just because I bought a domain with the words cheapassdiver in it, doesn't mean I'm always a cheap ass . The funny thing is, the internet seems like such a taboo in the dive shops. If I mention an online price, sometimes it gets quiet and uncomfortable real fast, or they jump at the chance to price match and get the sale.

My opinion is that either you can get close to someone's advertised price or you can't. If you can, then good, I want it right now, else I have to wait. Dive shops also tend to have limited quantities of items in stock.

I'm somewhat lucky on the whole DIR/Tech thing, my LDS is owned by a tech diver. He's not DIR, but he won't argue with any configuration you want. I also have a dozen other dive shops within a 20 minute radius that I can visit. When I bought my pony bottle (from my LDS), I posted the pictures here and got great feedback. I kept taking my pony back to the dive shop asking for modifications to the harness. I later purchased a new 2nd stage at the dive shop and a new 1st stage from DRIS.

The internet isn't the problem, it's the slow reaction to dive shops to adjust to the internet. If dive shops opened online stores, they might get more business. This would also mean someone has to manage the orders and support the site, and maybe dive shops don't want to deal with that overhead. Well, don't blame the consumer for that. Do we blame Amazon for the demise of book stores and lost sales at Best Buy? Each of these markets had to adapt or fail. The dive industry is no different.

Ok, I'm just rambling. We need dive shops, buy what you can from them, but if it makes sense to buy it online, then buy it online. My dive shops will still get business when I need equipment serviced, training, fills, charters, etc.

 

[imjustdave]

I think I would give the guy 1 more chance, call him up and explain that your last conversation with him was less then what you expected and see where it goes. Remember we are all human, if he is a decent guy I assume you will receive an apology and you guys can mend the owner customer relation. If not and he still goes off then yeah maybe move on to another shop.

Next topic.
Internet price is the only thing buyer. At some point in time if your unwilling for any place to afford to keep the doors open I suspect our LDS will be the internet some time in the future. I feel that price can't be the only thing I look at. I need air right? If I buy my mask new suit tanks from my LDS and it cost me 100 more but when getting air fills I am treated well "decent fills" not nickel and dimmed on say a top off of a pony or a tank used on a scrubbed dive down a few 100 then what is that worth to you? My last fill from my not my normal shop their booster was down and so my fill was 2900 lbs VS 3500... think I received a deal on my fill ... nope... I paid for 3000lbs and size even though I didn't get what I wanted "this shop is expensive for tanks fills" but I know my regular shop would have been way more flexible, can't say they would have been free but it wouldn't have been full ride either aka they would have tried to make me happy vs a money grab. I think people that work on a relation with a shop in the long run receive better service, assuming the shop is worth a dam to start with, again it is a two way street.

Last topic
DIR GUE BPW jacket
I think I would calmly approach the shop in a positive way if they didn't have what I wanted. Hey this is what I would like, lots of divers have dove this way today safely. I would like X your a dive shop I assume you can obtain this stuff, if not I can obtain it from another shop. IF you don't like it please provide a valid saftey reason why I shouldn't if not then please don't knock the way I want to dive I can point out issues in the way your doing it that goes against what my end goal is... Again LDS end goal and yours maybe completely different. I have one the caters to warm weather diving... but I live in Seattle the nearest warm water diving is after a month of 100 degree weather in a lake to about 5 feet down or a few 1000 miles away. I don't knock them and they don't knock me.

 

[Stoo]

He then responds “be a internet diver! I don't want to get involved in this go your own way”. Whoaa what just happened, lest than 10 minutes from a pleasant call from him getting my card # to this!

It seems that he has already decided for you. Every business owner has the right to choose to not do business with someone, just as you have the right to take your business elsewhere...

Having said that, the DS business is a tough one, these days especially. You know the old saying: "How do you make a million bucks in the dive business? Start with two million..." Maybe he was having a bad day... bank up his beavertail, or a supplier complaining, or some such thing. I always prefer to support a dive shop given the choice, but maybe before you write him off completely, you could call or send an email... explain what you want, and ask of he can provide that or not. If he doesn't respond, or doesn't tell you what you need to hear, then go elsewhere.

On the other hand, he might just feel that you are one of "those" customers... I know I have them. Whiny, cheap, always in a hurry... And he just doesn't want your business.

Apart from my regular career, I occasionally mentor young business owners. I sometimes ask them what the purpose of their business is. They usually answer with something like wanting to provide a great product or service and make their customers happy etc. And I always tell them that they're wrong. The PURPOSE of the business is to build wealth for the shareholders. The METHOD by which they do this, is by providing the excellent "whatever" that they already mentioned.

While I certainly don't agree that his method of brushing you off was at all acceptable, it might simply be that he has concluded that he can't match the Internet price and make anything, so why bother.

Up here in Canada, the shops have it even worse. Much of the product they sell goes though an unnecessary Canadian "distributor", and that adds an entirely unnecessary layer of markup and shipping. Lots of folks order directly from US webshops, and the effects are obvious with many shops really struggling.

To add to what Dave just said, certain shops to cater to a specific type of diver. Up here, where local diving is very much a seasonal thing (In Ontario, our lakes were frozen from late December to mid May this year...) many shops choose to specialize in servicing the travelling diver. One friend's shop went so far as to open a licensed travel agency division.

On the other hand, another friend has a shop that caters to the techy types, in addition to the rec and travel diver. Different strokes...

 

[BRT]

I completely disagree, shop everywhere: internet, big box stores, LDS, craigslist, ebay...and get the best bang for your buck. If that means trying on a wetsuit at an LDS and then buying it online - so be it.

I don't have a dive shop but I have encouraged customers to buy on the internet what I must buy on the internet and mark up to them. Often they are not exactly sure what they need and are happy to pay me my markup for my time and the risk of getting the wrong thing. In fact I have a bunch of customers that come in and ask me to find things for them.

I have lots of people who find the tires they think they want on the net and we mount them for them. Sometimes they are tires we have in stock. I'm good with that. We charge for what we do. If they have a problem with those tires the problem is theirs.

I am not interested in someone coming to me and trying to get me to match internet prices. I don't buy like big retailers do and can't sell like big retailers do.

If I find that someone is trying things out at my shop and then buying the item for less elsewhere they will not be trying things out at my shop in the future. Just my sense of right and wrong.

The reason I don't buy much from storefront dive shops is because they usually do not have just what I think I want. If I can't use them to look at the items I think I want why would I have them order what I can get cheaper elsewhere? If they want to order the items in for me to look at then I would buy from them if the items turned out to be what I wanted.

 

[victorzamora]

One thing I forgot to mention earlier is the markup on different items. I've seen price lists for 4 or 5 major dive manufacturers, and I've picked up on a certain set of trends most dive pros can comment on. Different items get drastically different levels of markup.

That super high-end, fluffy, weight-integrated, extra-fancy jacket-BCD? HUGE markup. DIR harness, BP/W? Much less markup. Split fins, fancy snorkel, or any mask? HUGE markup (like HUGE). Tech-style fins? Less markup (still significant, but way less than splits). Rebreathers, scooters, canister lights?? Much less markup. Computers vary.....the more techy ones have less markup, the crazy expensive rec ones have a HUGE markup. Drysuits vs wetsuits: Drysuits have a much lower markup. Plus, few shops repair drysuits in-house.....but they can always sell you a new wetsuit. Plus, you need different size/thickness wetsuits.....you just need a drysuit and some sweats from WalMart. Hose/octo/rec regs have a higher markup than the simple, hoseless, consistent DIR-type regs. Octo/Inflator combos have a HUGE markup, though. Standard power inflator has no markup. Harness hardware has practically no markup since it's so standard and the metal is super expensive to produce and machine (I'm talking trislides, bolt snaps, and d-rings, the specialty stuff might have higher markups). Hand-cannon flashlights and other rec-style lights have a high markup. "Canister-replacement" handhelds are marked up highly. Canisters are not, because they're so expensive to begin with.

All of these considerations factored together, you start seeing a pattern. A selfish dive shop wants to sell you a closet full of wetsuits, two of the fanciest snorkels plus a folding backup, yellow-hosed reg with an octo/inflator, a gigantic poodle jacket plus a spare one for travel, split fins and a $1300 rec computer. More tech-oriented items seem to have less markup while more rec-oriented items seem to have a much higher markup....so that's what they want to put you in. A good dive shop will put you in the gear you want/need/benefit from instead of squeezing every dime out of you. That converts people into long-term, loyal customers. It's exactly why I chose the dive shop I did for all of my purchases (since my first trip to that shop, over 90% of my dive gear has been through them). They'll recommend stuff despite lower markups or prices because that's what they believe in. Don't get me wrong, those buttheads have come between me and a healthy savings account plenty....but they treat me well and the prices are right, and getting better every time I go.

I don't just do that with dive shops, I do it with practically everything I buy.....and I'm happy to pay a premium for better service. I'll do it with a BIG smile on my face.....but I refuse to get ripped off.

 

[Mike]

I completely disagree, shop everywhere: internet, big box stores, LDS, craigslist, ebay...and get the best bang for your buck. If that means trying on a wetsuit at an LDS and then buying it online - so be it.

And keep that consumer chin up in the follow thru and don't cry like a cry baby when occasionally a store treats you like a leper trying to get it through your head that they don't want your business and to g.t.f.o.

As long as you'll take the abuse like a man and not cry or whine or post wondering why you were treated that way, I think that's fare.

As it's your prerogative to whom you will do business with it's a two way street and the dive shop owner gets the same prerogative.