Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[Dogbowl]

Rather than asking what shop owners “think” is killing their business, maybe the better question is to ask the scuba diving consumer why they’re not going into their LDS to spend their money. I think the industry is thinking about the “problem” from the wrong angle. Hence, the problem persists.

 

[mdb]

Curious to hear from dive shop owners or personnel on what might be the biggest factor that causes dive shops to go out of business?

Internet?
Loss of overall sport participation?
Increasing overhead?
Loss of a particular diving attraction?
(Regional problem)

We are expecting some potentially huge changes in Northern California as far as dive shops go, and not for the better.
I’ll explain in a part 2 after this thread develops a bit.

You started a very interesting and pertinent thread Eric Sedletzky.

We are now into 4 pages of replies.

Many lengthy and informative posts.

As a Northern California diver for decades-What are:
"some potentially huge changes in Northern California as far as dive shops go"

I think your thread will continue for some time.

Hope Dive Store owners are following along.

 

[Aviyes]

Bought my regulator setup from a local LDS. They had the brand I wanted, was very close if not the asking price online and I was able to ask questions/advice/free assembly. Plus, they gave me free access to their pool to go ensure everything worked after I purchased it. They then surprised me by following up by phone that next week to ensure everything had worked.

Other than that, dive shop trips are a nice way to go, especially when you don't have any dive buddies to go on vacation with. Price can be cheaper when solo, especially if there is another diver to room with and eliminate the double occupancy rates that are frustrating for solo travelers. Also, trips to the local dive locations can help introduce you to new locations and a group of potential local buddies, so "clubs".

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I love Coca-Cola and Java Monster Kona Blend. I enjoy stopping at the local McDonald's for a $1.06 large coke and chatting with the employees. I spend $2.96 on the Java Monster at my favorite convenient store. I could order a 15 pack online for $39.98 with free shipping for $2.66 a can, but I'd miss the social interaction. I never get a hassle and no one ever gives me a hard time that Pepsi is better than Coke or that Starbuck's or Dunkin is better than Monster.

35+ years in diving, SSI Platinum Pro 5000 Award, more certs than most will ever achieve, including some no one may ever have again, and I brace myself when I walk into a dive shop. I've walked through doors where owners were literally screaming at customers. No matter how low key I play it, I'm often given a hard time over everything from tank decals to T-shirts. I've been thrown out of shops for diving doubles and refused a spot on a boat for using a digital depth gauge and bottom timer rather than a dive computer.

Don't know which I'd rather do. Would I rather walk into a new dive shop for a fill, or be awakened at 2 o'clock in the morning to have a discussion with my girlfriend about whether or not I still love her and think she is as pretty as when we first met?

 

[boulderjohn]

the online shops are bound by the same MAP agreements as the local shops, but there is nothing that is preventing them from selling below MAP, the A=advertised is very important, it's not a minimum selling price, just the lowest they can advertise.

Actually, there is something preventing it...selling at a loss will put you out of business in no time. Major online outlets sell in high volume, and the vendor gives them volume discounts. In some cases that enables them to sell at prices a small outlet cannot possibly match.

Here is a case for me in particular. Here in Colorado, all of our local diving is very shallow. There is not much local diving to speak of, and you have to travel at least 6 hours to get to a place where nitrox would be a consideration. Thus, only a few shops offer nitrox fills, and almost no shops sell nitrox analyzers. There is just no market for them.

But as a tech instructor, I need to have a helium/oxygen analyzer, and that is a very expensive piece of equipment. My local shop told me they would give it to me as a service at their cost--no profit whatsoever. So they contacted the vendor and included me in the email chain. The vendor agreed to sell the helium/oxygen analyzer at a certain dealer price IF the dealer would agree to sell at least 5 nitrox analyzers per year, something that could never happen. That dealer price was about $50 more than the full retail price of that item as advertised in online stores, which is where I eventually got mine.

I experienced the same thing with an expensive canister light. As a shop employee, I could get it at 20% over dealer cost. I sat down with our buyer and looked at the catalog. My price would have been $100 more than i would have to pay for full retail to an online store.

Local stores can't compete with that. If they want to compete, they will have to do what DRIS and Cave Adventurers did and make a major online sales department. Maybe we have reached the point where all shops have to do that, at which time they may all achieve parity.

 

[Dogbowl]

I love Coca-Cola and Java Monster Kona Blend. I enjoy stopping at the local McDonald's for a $1.06 large coke and chatting with the employees. I spend $2.96 on the Java Monster at my favorite convenient store. I could order a 15 pack online for $39.98 with free shipping for $2.66 a can, but I'd miss the social interaction. I never get a hassle and no one ever gives me a hard time that Pepsi is better than Coke or that Starbuck's or Dunkin is better than Monster.

35+ years in diving, SSI Platinum Pro 5000 Award, more certs than most will ever achieve, including some no one may ever have again, and I brace myself when I walk into a dive shop. I've walked through doors where owners were literally screaming at customers. No matter how low key I play it, I'm often given a hard time over everything from tank decals to T-shirts. I've been thrown out of shops for diving doubles and refused a spot on a boat for using a digital depth gauge and bottom timer rather than a dive computer.

Don't know which I'd rather do. Would I rather walk into a new dive shop for a fill, or be awakened at 2 o'clock in the morning to have a discussion with my girlfriend about whether or not I still love her and think she is as pretty as when we first met?

I cannot believe that someone as experienced as you has the same fears as someone as inexperienced as me, before walking into a dive shop. I suppose it’s the state of affairs. I brace myself for what might come as I walk through that door. I purchased a reg set online and felt the need to explain why I purchased it online. Turns out that particular dive shop did not espouse the “attitude” and “ego” I was expecting and did not tell me I was gonna die using that thing. I ended up spending several thousand dollars there.

Really, a shopper should not be “scared” to go shopping.

 

[Dogbowl]

Local stores can't compete with that. If they want to compete, they will have to do what DRIS and Cave Adventurers did and make a major online sales department. Maybe we have reached the point where all shops have to do that, at which time they may all achieve parity.

Times are changing (oops, already changed). If that’s what should/must be done to stay afloat, why not?

 

[tbone1004]

Rather than asking what shop owners “think” is killing their business, maybe the better question is to ask the scuba diving consumer why they’re not going into their LDS to spend their money. I think the industry is thinking about the “problem” from the wrong angle. Hence, the problem persists.

ding ding, that's why I posted some of my reasons.

My "local dive shops" for the last almost 10 years have been two that I have never been to, Northeast Scuba Supply and Dive Right in Scuba, and one that I hadn't been to until a couple years ago, Cave Adventurers. These shops have great service, price match, etc. and I want to support them. I have been lucky with free access to compressors so unless I'm travelling to go diving, I don't need to go into a shop for fills, but I will say that most of the ones outside of cave country that I have been into weren't exactly ones that I'd be itching to go back and support.... I have also been lucky that being an engineer and generally DIY oriented person, combined with guys like @herman have helped me to learn to service my own stuff which removes the other real need for a LDS.

To get me to go into a LDS, it pretty much requires something I need "right now", or a social aspect that gets me to want to come in and hang out. It is not abnormal for me to go into a place like Gypsy with a 6-pack of beer and shoot the **** with the owner and some of the repair guys. At the shop here in Greenville, I've brought in food and beer and hung out for a bit, and that's pretty much SOP in cave country for us.

@boulderjohn that is the unfortunate beast with MAP's of some manufacturers actually being below dealer cost for a lot of items. Sad but true, but there is still nothing preventing them selling at a loss as a MAP agreement. See it far too regularly with small shops, but going back to my Raleigh paragraph. Is there really a need for that many shops in that area, or would consolidation of one of them into a much bigger shop with more buying power, better service support etc etc? Does it really have to be like having a separate car dealership for every brand in every city *which is what the industry is most unfortunately based on*, or are they better served by having one large dealership?

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I cannot believe that someone as experienced as you has the same fears as someone as inexperienced as me, before walking into a dive shop. I suppose it’s the state of affairs. I brace myself for what might come as I walk through that door. I purchased a reg set online and felt the need to explain why I purchased it online. Turns out that particular dive shop did not espouse the “attitude” and “ego” I was expecting and did not tell me I was gonna die using that thing. I ended up spending several thousand dollars there.

Dan Humble of Dive Tech in Mallorytown, Ontario should run classes for owners on how to do business. Only Dive Tech, Abucs Scuba in Brockville, ON; Cave Country Dive Shop in High Springs, FL; Amigos Dive Center in Ft. White, FL and Cave Adventurers in Marianna, FL have been 100% feel good experiences. Your mileage may vary.

 

[TMHeimer]

I've mentioned often that there is only one sizeable dive shop around here for a long ways (two outlets), and they always seem to be doing fine. I only skimmed through all the posts, but will ask--does anyone know of some specific statistics numbers that show a decline in dive shops?--In the US/Canada? Worldwide?