Why don't more companies make an 18# wing?

[halocline]

I find that if I am perfectly horizontal and definitely if I am slightly (or more) head down, the donut shape of the Hog is easier to dump gas from. The LCD's horseshoe shape will not let gas in the right side get to the dump valve if you're any head down. Primarily talking about the normal situation of having little or very little gas in the wing.

I don't doubt that you are more comfortable with your hog wing, but the horseshoe/donut design is irrelevant for what you are discussing. There's no way the air is going under the tank to the other side of the wing unless you're practically head-down.

 

[ronscuba]

My wife and I dive DSS 18lb wings. I gave up on colder water diving. We are strictly warm water tropical divers. 18 lbs is plenty for us.

I have owned a Oxy 30 wing, Dive Rite Transpac with 25 wing, Seaquest Balance. All, including the 18 lb DSS will keep my head above the water. However, none would lift me higher like a jacket bcd. If I am concerned about rougher seas and wave heights, I bring a snorkel.

I haven't really thought about it, but I could probably use my safety sausage to get me higher out of the water as well.

 

[Banyan]

Wow... great stuff guys. I didn't know about DSS. I see they even have a 12# wing. That's pretty neat. I like the way the mount. I'd love to try one of these to compare.

I dive the DSS 20# wing on Tobin's Kydex plate. With my beat up 1mm skin and standard aluminum 80, which is typical for my tropical diving, I use 4 lbs of lead. With a 3mm wetsuit, 10 lbs. I drop 4 lbs with a neutral 80 cylinder, so no lead at all with the skin. I've never felt like I didn't have enough lift on the surface, though carry an SMB if that ever became an issue.

 

[Father]

So the DSS Torus wings are all donuts, right? I assume that's what "full circle" means.
If I understand it right, the horseshoe has issues with dumping air unless your in a position that forces all of the air in it to a central located dump valve, right?

 

[stuartv]

So the DSS Torus wings are all donuts, right? I assume that's what "full circle" means.
If I understand it right, the horseshoe has issues with dumping air unless your in a position that forces all of the air in it to a central located dump valve, right?

Yes, the DSS Torus are all donuts.

I have a DSS horseshoe and another brand donut.

The horseshoe does not typically have issues with dumping air. The vast majority of the time, you wouldn't notice any real difference between a horseshoe or donut. But, there is no denying that, if you are head down, any air in the right side of a horseshoe cannot be dumped, no matter what you do, short of getting head high first.

I have seen some tech divers express a preference for using a horseshoe wing, but I've only ever heard reasoning for the preference that applies to diving doubles and carrying stages. For diving with a single tank, I've never heard anyone say that they actually prefer a horseshoe over a donut. But, I haven't been diving that long, so maybe they are out there. OTOH, DSS' older design is a horseshoe and their newest design is a donut. Halcyon's old design was a horsehoe and their newest is a donut. It seems like the trend is towards donuts. And that is definitely what I prefer. I have a donut and a horseshoe for singles and a donut and a horseshoe for doubles. I always use the donut in either case.

Lastly, regarding the DSS Torus, note that they are the only wing in the industry (that I know of, anyway) that does not have a zipper to let you get to the bladder in case you need to do a field repair on it.

 

[Father]

I always do a head down descent, and I can see how the horseshoe wouldn't be conducive to this style unless you had dump valves on both sides

With the DSS, how does the inflator hose elbow/connection not come in contact with your 1st stage?

 

[cool_hardware52]

I always do a head down descent, and I can see how the horseshoe wouldn't be conducive to this style unless you had dump valves on both sides

With the DSS, how does the inflator hose elbow/connection not come in contact with your 1st stage?

Two things, one your wing is seldom fulling inflated, and if it isn't fully inflated the elbow simply cannot press on anything with any force, and for most divers the elbow ends up above the crown of the cylinder and below the reg. In the unlikely event there is some actual interference (as opposed to "internet generated" interference) it's a simple matter to slightly rotate the cylinder a few degrees to the left or right.

Other than vent gas at the surface to initiate the descent I don't dump during descents, I'm adding gas.

Precision venting is required during controlled ascents. With a narrow profile wing, i.e. little tank wrap, one can easily move gas from right side of the wing to left by slightly raising your shoulders. Remember that the top "arc" of either a horseshoe or donut is free to roll up until it hits the valve / first stage. The lower arc of donut wing remains *under* the lower end of the cylinder. Shifting gas from side to side with a donut requires a distinctly heads down attitude, more so as the wing approaches fully evacuated.

When developing our "donuts" or Torus style wings (as in Tororidal) it quickly became apparent that gas almost never moves through the lower arc. We removed the bladders from a couple "donut wings" and RF welded the bladders shut across the lower arc, essentially making them horseshoe style wings. Test divers could not tell the difference......


Tobin

 

[tbone1004]

the elbow on my DSS wings ends up right in the nook created by the crown of the tank and the first stage. Remember that most recreational divers have their tanks very low, so proper tank positioning for me means I can manipulate the valve, that tank position makes no concerns with the elbow.

regarding the horseshoe. Horseshoes are great in technical diving to "pack" air to one side or the other for trim. One of the few pet peeves I have with my Katana in sidemount is that I now have to make sure my lateral trim is balanced.

contrary to Tobin's study, I can actually tell the difference between a donut and horseshoe wing, but most diversw won't notice. That said, another really big advantage to the horseshoes is that you are less likely to get a pinch flat on the bottom of the wing if you sit a tank on it. I've seen it before and it is unfortunate. Not saying that would sway me to one style or another, but it's a factor. To dump a drysuit, you have to go slightly vertical and roll to left shoulder up to get the air out, conveniently that is the same motion to get air into the left side of the wing to dump. One fell swoop and I will go slightly head up, roll to the left and dump my drysuit, tilt back down to slightly head down and dump the wing. Muscle memory at this point

 

[hroark2112]

I love diving in my 18# purple Ocycheq wing and Freedom plate, along with Force Fins. With an AL80, I usually carry 2# of lead, but mostly because I might need to give it to a buddy. Compared to diving a rebreather with wetsuit, bailout bottles, and everything else that goes with it, it's like diving naked.

 

[stuartv]

another really big advantage to the horseshoes is that you are less likely to get a pinch flat on the bottom of the wing if you sit a tank on it. I've seen it before and it is unfortunate.

Funny that you mention that because I have had 3 holes in my horseshoe wing from being pinched. I haven't used it since I got my Hog wing, about a year ago, and I've had no problems with the Hog, which is a donut.