PADI?

[Ukmc]

When I took my OW class I had no friends or family that dived. I progressed quickly to AOW and specialties so I could dive. Without a buddy these classes kept me in the water. Have I spent a lot of money? Yes. Were the classes worth it? To me, yes. Now I am a PADI Divemaster/ Master Scuba Diver and working on my AI. I have enjoyed the time and effort I put in to get this far. I have made several good friends out of all the classes I took. My wife has made friends as well although she is still a non diver but tags along on the boat.

Its like the whole Ford vs. Chevy debate. People want to think their way is the best when in reality there isn't much difference.

Agree with your post, except Chevy is definitely better than Ford

 

[Jafo19D]

I took that Fish ID course as part of my advanced open water (had exactly 15 minutes to go through the book before the dive).

"That's a fish, that's a fish, that's a fish *pointing at turtle* That isn't a fish."

So I wasn’t the only one. I can distinguish a shark, a lion fish and a turtle.

 

[Jafo19D]

I was diving in San Carlos, Mexico, and it was a long boat ride out to our island destination. I was the only one on the boat who was not part of a group from an IDEA shop, consisting of a Course Director, an instructor, and two divers, including a student who was getting whatever their equivalent of AOW was. On the trip out, I had an extended conversation with the Course Director, who told me (in a nicer tone than this sounds) how far superior IDEA was to PADI because of its higher standards.

We did the first dive as one big group, and I did not pay a lot of attention to them, other than to stay near them. Before long, the CD asked me on a slate to stay with the AOW student because the rest of them had to go up. I wondered what the emergency was. I stayed with her until she was appropriately low on air. She had trouble holding the safety stop, and I held her at depth. When we surfaced, I learned that the rest of them had surfaced because they were low on air. I had 1700 PSI left in my AL 80.

We did the second dive together again, but this time I paid a little more attention to them. At one point I saw the instructor standing upright on the rocky bottom. As I watched, he lost his balance and fell over on his back. Once again, the dive ended with me and the AOW student. She was getting buoyant, and I saw that her BCD had no air at all. I was wearing a back inflate BCD with trim pockets (SP Nighthawk), and I was intentionally overweighted so that my trim would be good. I gave her one of my weight pockets (4 pounds), and she was able to finish the dive without help. When we got on the boat, I told her to add 4 pounds to her weighting. I asked her if she had done a weight check, and she asked me what a weight check was. I explained what it was and how to do it.

For the third dive, the CD was feeling sick, and the other two did not feel like diving, so it was just me and the AOW student. We talked through a dive plan and had a nice dive.

I’ve never been properly weight checked. I read somewhere that in OW they purposely overweight you so that you can stay in the bottom. I’ve been shedding more and more weight and now I barely use the BCD for buoyancy.

 

[mhattenhauer]

Agree with your post, except Chevy is definitely better than Ford

I agree! I was just being nice. Lol

 

[GameChanger]

...The majority of PADI LDS's I've worked with are scared to start their students off in a BP/W configuration because 1. They don't sell the equipment 2. Have no idea how to dive it themselves 3. It is a higher initial price than 50 sets of Aqua Lung BCDS, Titan Regulators. And Octos (even though it would last much longer and be cheaper repair in the long-run) and 4. they are set in their ways of doing things.

^^^THIS^^^
My personal experience with an LDS when my 15 yr old son wanted to get certified. The owner and PADI Supreme Master Lord Commander of the Dive Watch (or whatever it is called) actually called the BP/W with long-hose a strangulation hazard and he refused to sell/teach with it. He admitted that it had been many years since he dove in the open ocean and all his diving was limited to a local lake with average depths of ~40ft. The class used poodle jackets for all training (with the obligatory snorkels of course) and my son got his C-card no problem. I then told him that the card was good for getting air fills, and now he needs to learn how to dive. I got him outfitted with a BP/W setup and even though I am not a certified instructor, we drilled in DIR fashion. As soon as this Covid stuff is gone, he will be enrolling in a Fundies course.

I recently discovered an LDS with SDI/TDI affiliation who does teach OW in BP/W with a strong focus on buoyancy & trim. They are an authorized Halcyon Dealer and they provide a Big H BP/W for their courses.

 

[BlueTrin]

So I wasn’t the only one. I can distinguish a shark, a lion fish and a turtle.

this pretty much summarises my fish ID skills:

 

[boulderjohn]

I’ve never been properly weight checked. I read somewhere that in OW they purposely overweight you so that you can stay in the bottom. I’ve been shedding more and more weight and now I barely use the BCD for buoyancy.

A weight check is a standard for any WRSTC agency, so if you were not weight checked in your OW class, it was a standards violation. I don;t doubt that it happened because, yes, students must be overweighted to do skills on the knees.

On the other hand, in nearly all agencies (with a couple of exceptions of agencies that teach a tiny percentage of students), the vast majority of students are taught skills while they are on their knees. Thus, in this "PADI hate" thread, this is really a comment about OW instruction in general, not PADI specifically. WHile I wish PADI would do more to encourage neutrally buoyant instruction, it is at least encouraging it with its instructors; I really don't know of any such efforts by the overwhelming majority of agencies.

 

[Ukmc]

I’ve never been properly weight checked. I read somewhere that in OW they purposely overweight you so that you can stay in the bottom. I’ve been shedding more and more weight and now I barely use the BCD for buoyancy.

Now that I think about it, I was taught on my knees during my OW and was overweighted and was not taught a weight check. I was definitely not taught how to shoot an SMB during my OW. All of these came later. However, OW got me started, got me interested in diving and my instructor made sure I was safe doing it. So I have no complaints about it. In retrospect, would it had been awesome if I learned perfect buoyancy right there and then- yes, but who knows. Excess of all The new information could have overloaded my feeble mind and I could have blown a lung... I have no regrets about doing OW separately from NitrOx and AOW or any of the additional courses I have taken. I was blessed with wonderful instructors throughout my journey of learning... and I had fun and continue to have fun doing it!

 

[Storker]

I think you make some very cogent and relevant points.

Thanks.

The one to which I would offer contrasting opinion is the one I highlighted in bold. I think you are right, for the average diver, the materials are good. However, I found the course books a little insulting (a strong word but another softer one doesn't come to mind) because they smacked of advertisement rather than skill development.

Well. I, too, have gotten more than a little annoyed at my PADI textbooks. Yes, thank you. Yes, you've mentioned that a few times already. What do you think I am, stupid?

Problem is, good and effective learning material has to cater for no higher than the second-lowest common denominator. Do you want as many as possible to learn enough to pass, or are you fine with failing those who need a bit of hand-holding and being fed the stuff in really small bite-sized pieces? If I were running a commercial educational facility depending on people passing my classes, I know what I'd choose.

It's a well known fact that if you want people to learn, you have to repeat your message several times, in various disguises. That's just how it is, and unfortunately those who get it the first time will get annoyed. But they'll pass, too.

 

[Edward3c]

Now that I think about it, I was taught on my knees during my OW and was overweighted and was not taught a weight check. I was definitely not taught how to shoot an SMB during my OW. All of these came later. However, OW got me started, got me interested in diving and my instructor made sure I was safe doing it. So I have no complaints about it. In retrospect, would it had been awesome if I learned perfect buoyancy right there and then- yes, but who knows. Excess of all The new information could have overloaded my feeble mind and I could have blown a lung... I have no regrets about doing OW separately from NitrOx and AOW or any of the additional courses I have taken. I was blessed with wonderful instructors throughout my journey of learning... and I had fun and continue to have fun doing it!

The thing with being taught how to clear your mask and recover the DV whilst neutrally buoyant isn't hard. Your not relearning anything, but learning properly first time.