Erich S
Contributor
So did you re-certify or take a refresher course?
PADI?
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So did you re-certify or take a refresher course?
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You do know that you could have hired a diver for $100 to just go and get the rod for you?
The refresher course I believe it's called. Actually I just looked and it's called Re-Activation Plus.
Yes, I certainly could have done that, but I want to dive some of the fish habitats to see what's going on as well. The rod and reel were just the motivator to get me looking at diving again...
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When I shoot a sausage, I'm shallower than 10-15m, usually around 5m. At those depths, a reel isn't cost effective, so I always use a spool.
Not me. Unless CMAS 3* with GUE-trained instructors counts as "similar".
jonhall
Contributor
Yes. I felt lucky to have a good instructor from the local dive shop I walked into. I know several of the instructors here on SB have mentioned that they have gone out on their own as opposed to working for a dive shop, but I didn't look for an instructor when I took OW - they came with course. I can't say I would search for an instructor today - as a consumer, I most likely would look for a place offering the course. Kind of like teaching - students had to have me as I was the only teacher who taught the course or grade level in a subject. I know that instructors take pride in the skills they teach and/or how they teach the skills - and thee has been debate on knees vs neutral buoyancy - but the truth, in my mind, is no matter how the skills are taught, the diver has to have opportunities to dive and practice. I believe that the most important thing I was taught was, "EXHALE as you ascend!", not a skill such as how to clear my mask at depth, deploy a DSMB, or put a weight belt on correctly. The skills are important, but a person has to learn by doing - tough when some only are able to dive a few times a year.
Was lucky to go from the course here in my hometown to Grand Cayman a week later to do my checkout dives - had a great instructor there also - Nancy Easterbrook from DiveTech. She took her time making sure everyone in our group could all perform the skills.
I can say that I had multiple instructors for AOW and, being at a resort dive op, I didn't receive the same type of instruction that came from a well organized course (sitting in a classroom and having time in the water with an instructor), but I knew to expect that from observations made from previous dive trips - and as I have mentioned before, I didn't have a problem with the way it was done: read the chapter, answer review questions in manual, go over review questions (basically read my answers to the instructor), perform a couple of skills on each of the AOW dives. I was in it to get the AOW card as quick as possible so this worked for me. This is not a knock on instructors in the resort type of situation as I feel they're just trying to move you along knowing you probably have a limited number of days you will be there. It was great for me as I was in the particular area for 2 weeks and didn't have to rush anything.
Here's to the instructors
They introduced their Self-Reliant course in 2011, and revised it in 2016.
They walk a fine line: they never say "solo" in the materials, but do say the following:
In actuality, the two course are almost identical, with the PADI course being slightly more rigorous and intense. For example, PADI requires three open water dives, not two like SDI, and does not allow a Spare-Air as a redundant gas supply. Good for them!
Man, a PADI bash thread and I haven't had a turn at caning the horse....I feel so left out.
Hate is a bit strong of a word, IMO.
For me, it's about some fundamental things. To get some context out of the way, I look at PADI from the perspective of an organizational leader with 26 years of experience training people and teams to accomplish a wide variety of mental and physical activities under challenging conditions that involve potential traumatic injury and loss of life.
First, my assessment is PADI's marketing reach far exceeds their quality control in their training domain. That's a fancy way to say they overpromise and under-deliver. I think those two organizational activities (marketing and training) should be in better balance.
Second, I haven't sat on an WRSTC meeting (and probably never will) but my sense is PADI's vote wields far more influence in the WRSTC's decision-making than it should. I don't get the sense PADI is using its out-sized influence to drive the industry forward towards a better future (rising tide raises all ships) as much as protect their training model and standards. While some of that is certainly appropriate, I think to whom much is given, much is expected and PADI has the bandwidth to lead and assist.
Third, my sense is PADI has sloppily pursued new profit opportunities rather than first optimizing their base. For PADI, the base is recreational diving and tec is not. If I had been in a decision-making role at PADI, I would have eschewed the expansion into tec and preferred to partner with an established and reputable technical agency to foster mutual support. Instead, PADI has, IMO, only expanded its sloppiness. I think there is great virtue in sticking to the basics and doing it better than anybody else rather than pursuing new endeavors and spreading oneself thin (or even thinner in PADI's case).
Fourth, I think their profit model compromises the consistent production of proficient divers. The emphasis on quantity versus quality is disappointing. Diving is fun, pleasant, serene and all those things but it's not without risk. Rather than teach divers a wider panoramic view of diving and how to confidently deal with contingencies (like other certifying agencies such as CMAS and SNSI do), PADI teaches divers to hover over the panic button. This falls far short of my definition of the word professional in the title of their organization.
Not to be flippant, but I suppose PADI has been indirectly helpful to the technical dive community. When I finally I got done with my PADI Basic Open Water course after 30 dives (my instructor was a scatterbrained mess and frequently absent so I just kept diving with other instructors), I RAN to the technical dive community because I was so disgusted with my training experience but intuitively knew there had to be a better organization to help me achieve the skill proficiency I'm accustomed to.
Hate is a bit strong of a word, IMO.
For me, it's about some fundamental things. To get some context out of the way, I look at PADI from the perspective of an organizational leader with 26 years of experience training people and teams to accomplish a wide variety of mental and physical activities under challenging conditions that involve potential traumatic injury and loss of life.
First, my assessment is PADI's marketing reach far exceeds their quality control in their training domain. That's a fancy way to say they overpromise and under-deliver. I think those two organizational activities (marketing and training) should be in better balance.
Second, I haven't sat on an WRSTC meeting (and probably never will) but my sense is PADI's vote wields far more influence in the WRSTC's decision-making than it should. I don't get the sense PADI is using its out-sized influence to drive the industry forward towards a better future (rising tide raises all ships) as much as protect their training model and standards. While some of that is certainly appropriate, I think to whom much is given, much is expected and PADI has the bandwidth to lead and assist.
Third, my sense is PADI has sloppily pursued new profit opportunities rather than first optimizing their base. For PADI, the base is recreational diving and tec is not. If I had been in a decision-making role at PADI, I would have eschewed the expansion into tec and preferred to partner with an established and reputable technical agency to foster mutual support. Instead, PADI has, IMO, only expanded its sloppiness. I think there is great virtue in sticking to the basics and doing it better than anybody else rather than pursuing new endeavors and spreading oneself thin (or even thinner in PADI's case).
Fourth, I think their profit model compromises the consistent production of proficient divers. The emphasis on quantity versus quality is disappointing. Diving is fun, pleasant, serene and all those things but it's not without risk. Rather than teach divers a wider panoramic view of diving and how to confidently deal with contingencies (like other certifying agencies such as CMAS and SNSI do), PADI teaches divers to hover over the panic button. This falls far short of my definition of the word professional in the title of their organization.
Not to be flippant, but I suppose PADI has been indirectly helpful to the technical dive community. When I finally I got done with my PADI Basic Open Water course after 30 dives (my instructor was a scatterbrained mess and frequently absent so I just kept diving with other instructors), I RAN to the technical dive community because I was so disgusted with my training experience but intuitively knew there had to be a better organization to help me achieve the skill proficiency I'm accustomed to.
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- PADI is the biggest - and perhaps thus the most successful - agency in the world, certifying the largest amount of divers
- Being a commercial enterprise, PADI recognizes the need to provide good learning material and manages to do so
- Being a commercial enterprise, PADI has an interest in giving as many courses as possible. A certified diver happy with their cert(s) isn't providing additional revenue
- Learning in small bite-sized pieces is usually beneficial for learning retention. Thus, many small courses are usually better for the student than what one huge course is
- For those who don't have the opportunity to join a not-for-profit club, several minor classes with a competent instructor may provide the learning experience others get from diving in a club environment with more experienced mentors
- The commercial focus of PADI doesn't provide the best learning experience for those not interested in "going pro" (as PADI puts it) after obtaining fairly basic diving skills
There are pros and cons to how PADI runs their business. I believe that they provide a positive contribution for the below-average to the average diver, but those who want to progress their diving further without "going pro" perhaps would benefit from looking at what other agencies can offer.
@Storker - I think you make some very cogent and relevant points. The one to which I would offer contrasting opinion is the one I highlighted in bold. I think you are right, for the average diver, the materials are good. However, I found the course books a little insulting (a strong word but another softer one doesn't come to mind) because they smacked of advertisement rather than skill development. A good buddy of mine once said, "PADI will take one chapter of training, spread it out amongst five chapters and advertise a bunch of other courses along the way that should be taught in the basic OW course."
When I switched over to a technical agency, I found the course books very refreshing.
EDIT: I forgot to add....when I got OW certified I talked with other divers about additional training opportunities and how to develop a much higher degree of proficiency. Everything in PADI points towards becoming an instructor but I didn't (and still don't) have any interest in that. I just want to be a really, really solid and reliable dive teammate in various equipment and gas configurations and environments.
I’m like a beach ball....randomly popping up in an awkward, unpredictable trajectory.
When I get on a vessel, I’m not impressed when I hear, “I’m a PADI Divemaster.” or “I’m a PADI Master SCUBA Diver Trainer.” or even “I’m a PADI Course Director.”
I do NOT mean to say that all PADI-qualified careerists should be ignored, disrespected or discounted, just that the title doesn’t inspire in my mind what PADI advertises it to be (provided in italics below from PADI’s website).
PADI Course Directors are PADI Master Instructors who have taken the next step and joined an elite group of instructor trainers. Course Directors teach PADI Instructor Development Courses (IDCs) and other instructor-level training, and thus are the scuba diving industry’s most influential leaders and role models. This rating is the highest and most respected professional rating in recreational scuba diving.
When one announces one of the titles I mentioned above (PADI DM/MSDT/CD), it should command attention, not immediately make one question whether the person is truly a dive leader or just muddled along and passed the ambiguous PADI standards. That’s a branding problem meaning that at various points along the way the marketing has outpaced the quality of the product and the common brand ambassadors have fallen short of the advertised level of proficiency. Given that PADI stands for Professional Association of Diving Instructors, one could argue this is a fundamental breakdown in their business charter.
There ARE absolutely great people in PADI, people who are EXCELLENT instructors, who have been at it for 30+ years as their primary source of income (meaning they are truly committed) and have been on board PADI’s evolution. However, those same people are the ones who have let their hair down with me and expressed frustration with PADI’s profit model of quantity over quality.
I fully recognize it’s crummy to sit in my tree like a Central American Howler monkey, screech loudly and throw poop. I‘m about to retire from one career as a leader in an organization that’s known for training and am pondering my next career. In my soul-searching, I have very much considered joining PADI at the corporate level precisely to help bring fresh perspective. There is growing frustration with PADI and given the downturn in the market due to COVID-19, the conditions are right for ongoing internal reviews of how to improve the organization. Given the opportunity, I would very much like doing my part to help PADI return to its original intentions.
When I get on a vessel, I’m not impressed when I hear, “I’m a PADI Divemaster.” or “I’m a PADI Master SCUBA Diver Trainer.” or even “I’m a PADI Course Director.”
I do NOT mean to say that all PADI-qualified careerists should be ignored, disrespected or discounted, just that the title doesn’t inspire in my mind what PADI advertises it to be (provided in italics below from PADI’s website).
PADI Course Directors are PADI Master Instructors who have taken the next step and joined an elite group of instructor trainers. Course Directors teach PADI Instructor Development Courses (IDCs) and other instructor-level training, and thus are the scuba diving industry’s most influential leaders and role models. This rating is the highest and most respected professional rating in recreational scuba diving.
When one announces one of the titles I mentioned above (PADI DM/MSDT/CD), it should command attention, not immediately make one question whether the person is truly a dive leader or just muddled along and passed the ambiguous PADI standards. That’s a branding problem meaning that at various points along the way the marketing has outpaced the quality of the product and the common brand ambassadors have fallen short of the advertised level of proficiency. Given that PADI stands for Professional Association of Diving Instructors, one could argue this is a fundamental breakdown in their business charter.
There ARE absolutely great people in PADI, people who are EXCELLENT instructors, who have been at it for 30+ years as their primary source of income (meaning they are truly committed) and have been on board PADI’s evolution. However, those same people are the ones who have let their hair down with me and expressed frustration with PADI’s profit model of quantity over quality.
I fully recognize it’s crummy to sit in my tree like a Central American Howler monkey, screech loudly and throw poop. I‘m about to retire from one career as a leader in an organization that’s known for training and am pondering my next career. In my soul-searching, I have very much considered joining PADI at the corporate level precisely to help bring fresh perspective. There is growing frustration with PADI and given the downturn in the market due to COVID-19, the conditions are right for ongoing internal reviews of how to improve the organization. Given the opportunity, I would very much like doing my part to help PADI return to its original intentions.
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