2 Dead in cave diving incident.
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cornfed
Mindless lemming
Unless I'm mistaken all the report indicate that the DPV was functioning when they recovered it.domino22:
Wayne A
Registered
domino22:
Why do you assume that the scooters malfunctioned? Lots of personal experience scootering in caves?
All reports I've seen so far indicate no malfunction of the scooters.Wayne A:
Rick
b3w@r3
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Fivetide:
Some of you are just making uneducated comments or very disrespectful refrences concerning this accident. We don't have all the facts yet so speculation is a waste of time.
Diving with a scooter requires a lot of disipline as do all aspects of technical diving. Dives involving scooters revolve around different air management than dives done only swimming. Ideally scooters are used in caves we are familiar with to the point of knowing how long and how much gas it takes to swim out.
Things like the silting you mentioned is always a concern in cave diving. Propre tecnique along with some common sense goes a long way in keeping the visibility acceptable. Also the references you made to illuminating the cave with DVP's well...sigh, I dont think anyone is going to carry a scooter down in a cave to use just as a light source, but you never know. Maybe dont trust the information you are getting from these people.
The point is that a lot of planning goes into technical oriented diving (much more than I have space here to type). Ideally there are back ups for backups. From accidents like this one and others we learn how things go wrong and find ways to teach people to avoid the same mistakes.
This is mostly a recreational community, when discussing a cave accident like this, please take into consideration that the majority of divers are not cave certified, let alone will ever dive with a DPV in open water. The only people who know what really happened are deceased.....if your not trained in this area than don't speculate on possibly causes, it makes an arse out of you and it disrespects the people who died and their families. Either of which I don't think are great goals to achieve.
Jason
Jason
Spectre
Contributor
Question. Why is the focus in this thread on the DPVs, when the more glaring point was the distance they were from the line?
Former FLL Now MSP Diver
Contributor
this was in today's Orlando Sentinel
Cave-diving thrills can turn deadly
By Wes Smith
Sentinel National Correspondent
June 28, 2004
HUDSON -- In a dark, deep-water chamber known as "John's Pocket," relief
and then anger swept over cave diver Paul Heinerth.
Heinerth and fellow diver Larry Green of High Springs were two days into an
exhaustive search when they finally found their former student and friend.
Craig Simon's body was cocooned in an eerie web of safety rope 290 feet
deep within the world-renowned Eagle's Nest cave system near Weeki Wachee, where he and dive partner John H. Robinson Jr. disappeared June 12.
"When I found him, I had a sense of relief that we knew where he was. He
wasn't missing anymore," Heinerth said last week. "And I was angry at him
for putting himself in that situation."
Since 1960, there have been 374 Florida cave-diving deaths recorded by
International Underwater Cave Rescue and Recovery. Historically, most of
those fatalities were divers who lacked proper training for deep diving in
what enthusiasts call an "overhead environment."
But now there is growing concern that even veteran cave divers are putting
themselves in unnecessary danger. Complacency and carelessness have
increased in direct relation to advances in high-tech equipment for their
demanding sport, some cave-diving experts say.
So far this year, there have been five cave-diving deaths reported to the
IUCCR -- three in Mexico and the two deaths at Eagle's Nest. All five of
those who have died were certified cave divers. Last year, at least four of
the 10 cave divers who died were certified.
"In recent years, the people who are dying are often trained cave divers.
People are relying on tools that they may not really know how to use," said
Michael Garman, vice president of the Tallahassee-based National
Association for Cave Diving.
High-tech breathing regulators, gas mixtures, rebreathers, submersible
scooters, wristband dive computers and other equipment have encouraged
trained cave divers to go deeper and farther into underwater labyrinths --
sometimes without proper planning or basic safety precautions, Garman and
others said.
Thirty years ago the small numbers of cave divers in Florida were generally
zealots dedicated to refining their skills. But today there are many more
recreational cave divers. They may be certified but only dive once or twice
a year "so their skills are not as finely honed," said Jeffrey Bozanic, who
analyzes accident data for IUCRR.
Cave divers are increasingly having accidents because they grabbed the
wrong regulator, lost control of their scooters or misused rebreathers, he
said.
"The slow accumulation of knowledge, skills and experience that is
necessary to progress deeper into the realm of technical diving is being
short-circuited, and this is leading to an inordinate number of avoidable
incidents and accidents," the Huntington Beach, Calif., researcher said.
At the same time, he said, more individual cave divers are making scores of
sorties into underwater caverns and returning safely.
"People have a gut-level terror of being in dark places and drowning, so it
makes for good news copy when cave divers die," Bozanic said. "But if you
look at the data, it's not that much more dangerous than a lot of other
activities."
In the end it's often difficult to say exactly what caused most cave-diving
deaths "because there is no one left to tell the tale," he said.
Search and recovery
That grim fact and an equally sobering responsibility are part of the
culture of Central Florida's certified cave divers, most of whom also share
advanced technical skills, physical prowess and a love of high adventure in
the many freshwater caves of the region.
The responsibility comes in the fact that when someone from their ranks
makes a fatal mistake, only other cave divers are qualified to do a search.
"It's a necessary task and a somber one, but it has to be done because
there is always a family waiting for closure," Heinerth said.
The call that cave divers dread went out most recently on the afternoon of
June 12. Simon, 44, of Spring Hill and Robinson, 36, of St. Petersburg had
not resurfaced from a Saturday dive into the Eagle's Nest cave system.
Cave divers from around the world are drawn to the remote and murky pond
north of Tampa that offers entrance to 5,655 feet of surveyed passageways
through a long chimney that opens into a spectacular cathedral-sized cavern.
Even expert divers regard Eagle's Nest as a system of many dangers because
of its deep network of tunnels and chambers with heavy silt and mud
deposits. It had claimed at least five victims, including the most recent
deaths. During the years, access has been blocked -- with limited success
-- by a variety of owners, but it was officially opened to the public in
July 2003 after the surrounding 720 acres was acquired as part of the
state's Chassahowitzka Wildlife Management Area.
Heinerth, who owns Scuba West dive shop in Hudson and has dived Eagle's
Nest since the 1970s, was surprised to learn that the two missing men were
experienced cave divers. He was stunned that Simon was one of them.
Simon, a father of four and owner of a lawn service, was a "very outgoing
Italian guy who talked with his hands, had a New York accent and loved
diving a great deal," Heinerth recalled.
Simon had "started cutting the grass here at our shop," he said. "Now the
saddest part is that his littlest boy and girl probably won't remember
their dad."
Heinerth and Green were among dozens of divers who responded to Eagle's
Nest to take part in a marathon recovery effort. Drenching storms made it
impossible at times to leave or enter the remote site until a bulldozer was
brought in as a tow truck.
Certified cave-rescue divers from Citrus and Pasco counties' teams had
tried without success to find the missing men June 12. Heinerth and
longtime dive partner Steve Straatsma of St. Petersburg were asked to join
the search Sunday morning.
Investigators had learned that Simon and Robinson, using submersible
scooters, were intending to explore the far reaches of the "downstream"
tunnels of Eagle's Nest.
Twenty minutes into their search, Straatsma found the body of Robinson, an
electrical engineer for Raytheon, inside Jim's Room, a cavern about 1,000
feet into the downstream tunnel at a depth of more than 260 feet.
"He was facing out, near the main guide line, and his tanks were empty,"
Heinerth said.
It took three more dive teams to get the body to the surface in stages.
Heinerth and Straatsma spent nearly 21/2 more hours working their way
slowly to the surface in order to avoid decompression sickness.
Robinson had worn a wrist computer that recorded the depths he had
encountered before things went fatally wrong. From his computer profile of
the dive, searchers were able to determine about where he and Simon had been.
For Monday's search, Heinerth teamed with Green, who had trained both Simon
and Robinson in cave diving. Initially, they swam the 1,000 feet into Jim's
Room and then into a deeper chamber within it called "John's Pocket."
There, Heinerth's searchlight hit "a lump" in the 6 feet of silt and mud
coating the cave floor. "When I put my light on it, I saw a stainless-steel
clip like that used on the scooters."
Heinerth and Green recovered the scooter and resumed their search for
Simon. The veteran divers methodically followed safety procedures by
running guide rope as they scanned the black chamber.
After nearly 40 minutes, their breathing tank levels were running low, and
the two divers were on the verge of beginning a slow, four-hour ascent to
avoid decompression sickness.
"I was using a rebreather, which gave me a little more time, and just
before we made the dive, Craig's mother told me, 'Please find my son,' "
Heinerth said. "I'd told her I would do my best, so I told Larry to give me
one more minute."
He swam deeper into the dead-end chamber, and there, in a tight "nook" at
the very end, he found Simon's ensnared body.
Unresolved questions
Theories abound as to what went wrong, but the truth will likely remain
buried deep in that "nook."
"I didn't see a guide line when I found Craig's scooter, though that
doesn't mean one wasn't there," Heinerth said. "When you have a scooter, it
is very tempting to just go and take a quick look at something without
running a line. Something could have happened to kick up the silt, and then
things could have gone sour fast."
No one knows whether that is what happened, the veteran cave diver said.
But if it did, "it's a reminder that you can't stray from the basic rules,
as tempting as it may be," he said.
Marc
Cave-diving thrills can turn deadly
By Wes Smith
Sentinel National Correspondent
June 28, 2004
HUDSON -- In a dark, deep-water chamber known as "John's Pocket," relief
and then anger swept over cave diver Paul Heinerth.
Heinerth and fellow diver Larry Green of High Springs were two days into an
exhaustive search when they finally found their former student and friend.
Craig Simon's body was cocooned in an eerie web of safety rope 290 feet
deep within the world-renowned Eagle's Nest cave system near Weeki Wachee, where he and dive partner John H. Robinson Jr. disappeared June 12.
"When I found him, I had a sense of relief that we knew where he was. He
wasn't missing anymore," Heinerth said last week. "And I was angry at him
for putting himself in that situation."
Since 1960, there have been 374 Florida cave-diving deaths recorded by
International Underwater Cave Rescue and Recovery. Historically, most of
those fatalities were divers who lacked proper training for deep diving in
what enthusiasts call an "overhead environment."
But now there is growing concern that even veteran cave divers are putting
themselves in unnecessary danger. Complacency and carelessness have
increased in direct relation to advances in high-tech equipment for their
demanding sport, some cave-diving experts say.
So far this year, there have been five cave-diving deaths reported to the
IUCCR -- three in Mexico and the two deaths at Eagle's Nest. All five of
those who have died were certified cave divers. Last year, at least four of
the 10 cave divers who died were certified.
"In recent years, the people who are dying are often trained cave divers.
People are relying on tools that they may not really know how to use," said
Michael Garman, vice president of the Tallahassee-based National
Association for Cave Diving.
High-tech breathing regulators, gas mixtures, rebreathers, submersible
scooters, wristband dive computers and other equipment have encouraged
trained cave divers to go deeper and farther into underwater labyrinths --
sometimes without proper planning or basic safety precautions, Garman and
others said.
Thirty years ago the small numbers of cave divers in Florida were generally
zealots dedicated to refining their skills. But today there are many more
recreational cave divers. They may be certified but only dive once or twice
a year "so their skills are not as finely honed," said Jeffrey Bozanic, who
analyzes accident data for IUCRR.
Cave divers are increasingly having accidents because they grabbed the
wrong regulator, lost control of their scooters or misused rebreathers, he
said.
"The slow accumulation of knowledge, skills and experience that is
necessary to progress deeper into the realm of technical diving is being
short-circuited, and this is leading to an inordinate number of avoidable
incidents and accidents," the Huntington Beach, Calif., researcher said.
At the same time, he said, more individual cave divers are making scores of
sorties into underwater caverns and returning safely.
"People have a gut-level terror of being in dark places and drowning, so it
makes for good news copy when cave divers die," Bozanic said. "But if you
look at the data, it's not that much more dangerous than a lot of other
activities."
In the end it's often difficult to say exactly what caused most cave-diving
deaths "because there is no one left to tell the tale," he said.
Search and recovery
That grim fact and an equally sobering responsibility are part of the
culture of Central Florida's certified cave divers, most of whom also share
advanced technical skills, physical prowess and a love of high adventure in
the many freshwater caves of the region.
The responsibility comes in the fact that when someone from their ranks
makes a fatal mistake, only other cave divers are qualified to do a search.
"It's a necessary task and a somber one, but it has to be done because
there is always a family waiting for closure," Heinerth said.
The call that cave divers dread went out most recently on the afternoon of
June 12. Simon, 44, of Spring Hill and Robinson, 36, of St. Petersburg had
not resurfaced from a Saturday dive into the Eagle's Nest cave system.
Cave divers from around the world are drawn to the remote and murky pond
north of Tampa that offers entrance to 5,655 feet of surveyed passageways
through a long chimney that opens into a spectacular cathedral-sized cavern.
Even expert divers regard Eagle's Nest as a system of many dangers because
of its deep network of tunnels and chambers with heavy silt and mud
deposits. It had claimed at least five victims, including the most recent
deaths. During the years, access has been blocked -- with limited success
-- by a variety of owners, but it was officially opened to the public in
July 2003 after the surrounding 720 acres was acquired as part of the
state's Chassahowitzka Wildlife Management Area.
Heinerth, who owns Scuba West dive shop in Hudson and has dived Eagle's
Nest since the 1970s, was surprised to learn that the two missing men were
experienced cave divers. He was stunned that Simon was one of them.
Simon, a father of four and owner of a lawn service, was a "very outgoing
Italian guy who talked with his hands, had a New York accent and loved
diving a great deal," Heinerth recalled.
Simon had "started cutting the grass here at our shop," he said. "Now the
saddest part is that his littlest boy and girl probably won't remember
their dad."
Heinerth and Green were among dozens of divers who responded to Eagle's
Nest to take part in a marathon recovery effort. Drenching storms made it
impossible at times to leave or enter the remote site until a bulldozer was
brought in as a tow truck.
Certified cave-rescue divers from Citrus and Pasco counties' teams had
tried without success to find the missing men June 12. Heinerth and
longtime dive partner Steve Straatsma of St. Petersburg were asked to join
the search Sunday morning.
Investigators had learned that Simon and Robinson, using submersible
scooters, were intending to explore the far reaches of the "downstream"
tunnels of Eagle's Nest.
Twenty minutes into their search, Straatsma found the body of Robinson, an
electrical engineer for Raytheon, inside Jim's Room, a cavern about 1,000
feet into the downstream tunnel at a depth of more than 260 feet.
"He was facing out, near the main guide line, and his tanks were empty,"
Heinerth said.
It took three more dive teams to get the body to the surface in stages.
Heinerth and Straatsma spent nearly 21/2 more hours working their way
slowly to the surface in order to avoid decompression sickness.
Robinson had worn a wrist computer that recorded the depths he had
encountered before things went fatally wrong. From his computer profile of
the dive, searchers were able to determine about where he and Simon had been.
For Monday's search, Heinerth teamed with Green, who had trained both Simon
and Robinson in cave diving. Initially, they swam the 1,000 feet into Jim's
Room and then into a deeper chamber within it called "John's Pocket."
There, Heinerth's searchlight hit "a lump" in the 6 feet of silt and mud
coating the cave floor. "When I put my light on it, I saw a stainless-steel
clip like that used on the scooters."
Heinerth and Green recovered the scooter and resumed their search for
Simon. The veteran divers methodically followed safety procedures by
running guide rope as they scanned the black chamber.
After nearly 40 minutes, their breathing tank levels were running low, and
the two divers were on the verge of beginning a slow, four-hour ascent to
avoid decompression sickness.
"I was using a rebreather, which gave me a little more time, and just
before we made the dive, Craig's mother told me, 'Please find my son,' "
Heinerth said. "I'd told her I would do my best, so I told Larry to give me
one more minute."
He swam deeper into the dead-end chamber, and there, in a tight "nook" at
the very end, he found Simon's ensnared body.
Unresolved questions
Theories abound as to what went wrong, but the truth will likely remain
buried deep in that "nook."
"I didn't see a guide line when I found Craig's scooter, though that
doesn't mean one wasn't there," Heinerth said. "When you have a scooter, it
is very tempting to just go and take a quick look at something without
running a line. Something could have happened to kick up the silt, and then
things could have gone sour fast."
No one knows whether that is what happened, the veteran cave diver said.
But if it did, "it's a reminder that you can't stray from the basic rules,
as tempting as it may be," he said.
Marc
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