A tour of Meridiano 87 - filling station

[Christi]

Opposite direction being...?

So, the inline CO monitor situation is the same? Meridiano is the biggest but still doesn't bother, nor does any other compressor? Is that correct?

Nice to hear that they are interested in adding them now, but these are not new inventions. Ah well, the personal CO units should be out from Analox next month. It'll be interesting to see which operators acquire them and offer their use along with Nitrox testers. I know that shipping is a challenge but I bet divers can transport them in for operators, after reviewing Customs regs.

Don - not sure why you quoted my text and then started referring to inline Co2 monitoring - that's not at all what I was referring to.

Lin-Mar, the other fill station (who is less regulated and maintained) made very poor business/customer relations decisions recently when Meridiano's main compressor went down for a week+. Rather than stepping up to help get divers out (good for the island and good PR for their own business) and filling tanks for ops that aren't their "regular" accounts, they shunned the ops that don't use them every day and basically told us all to go to hell since we don't use them regularly. That is what I was referring to when I said they went the other direction.

And Mike says that Meridiano is difficult to deal with? I have never had anything but professional dealings with them - even in their recent crisis of the major compressor breaking down.

 

[DandyDon]

Don - not sure why you quoted my text and then started referring to inline Co2 monitoring - that's not at all what I was referring to.

CO was more the theme of the original post. So my understanding is correct?

Lin-Mar, the other fill station (who is less regulated and maintained) made very poor business/customer relations decisions recently when Meridiano's main compressor went down for a week+. Rather than stepping up to help get divers out (good for the island and good PR for their own business) and filling tanks for ops that aren't their "regular" accounts, they shunned the ops that don't use them every day and basically told us all to go to hell since we don't use them regularly. That is what I was referring to when I said they went the other direction.

Thanks. Wondered what you meant.

 

[beachnik]

@ DandyDon

Thanks for your comments.

"Did you notice how many tanks they filled at a time?"

I didn't count them but it's a bunch! Several rows of many air lines hanging down to fill numerous tanks at once. Christi might know the number.

[ in-house testing of CO level ] "Before or after the filter changes?"

That's a good question, and I don't know the answer. Again, maybe Christi knows.

My Cozumel contact isn't available for comment right now.

 

[DandyDon]

:medal: I thot you conducted a very informed tour for no training. Years ago in my more naive days, I toured a fill shack for the then one supplier of Nitrox on Ambergris Cay and he showed me his test records but I didn't know enough to appreciate them. Impressive operator over all; too bad that partnership broke up.

When I first got my CO tester, I loaned it to the same LDS that lead that trip for one they had coming on Utila. They forgot about it until everyone got ill the first day, then checked some tanks - then made the that station clean everything. :shocked2:

We got to talking about the first day on Ambergris, when all of the air divers got ill, but the Nitrox divers didn't - wishing we'd had a CO tester back then. Now we wonder if that operator went back and cleaned his compressor? They're not going to admit anything they don't have to, and it was the poorest excuse for an op I've ever dived with - not the one who supplied Nitrox. Hehe more to that story but not tonight.

I was in contact with Dive Palancar shortly after their incident and he seemed genuinely interested in testing his tanks filled before the shut down but didn't know of anyone with a tester on island. You never know who to believe at what really, but we asked around and I didn't hear of any on island. Inline monitors and operator supplied tank testers cost money I know, but with over $100,000/day in dive trips - pennies/tank to do it right. I bet DP is the first on Coz to get both after losing the Allegro, but then logic doesn't always work.

@ DandyDon

Thanks for your comments.

"Did you notice how many tanks they filled at a time?"

I didn't count them but it's a bunch! Several rows of many air lines hanging down to fill numerous tanks at once. Christi might know the number.

Yeah, it seems that they hook up a large number of tanks, then engage the compressor for direct filling - no nurse/holding tank, which is why they can't fill one little pony alone. This varies as some ops do have nurse tanks, cascade tanks, or smaller compressors that fill a smaller number at a time like on a liveaboard.

[ in-house testing of CO level ] "Before or after the filter changes?"

That's a good question, and I don't know the answer. Again, maybe Christi knows.

My Cozumel contact isn't available for comment right now.

No problem. Accuracy in conveying questions and answers is delicate anyway, but with more CO testers coming available, more divers willing to spend some time and money to carry and test, more divers like you taking interest in compressor tours - some ops will get the idea that they need to spend the pennies to do it better. I have not seen a Coz operator yet offer to acquire CO testers for customers to use like they do Nitrox, but one way or the other. A gap that needs to be filled, and it can be. :cool3:

 

[RubberDucky]

Last week we had a tank on the boat - filled by Meridiano 87 - that repeatedly tested at what I would consider a high level of CO, at a high of 25 PPM. By "repeatedly" I mean that I tested it 4 - 5 times, and it consistently tested high. The other tanks on the boat checked out fine (also filled by Meridiano), as did all of the other tanks I tested throughout the entire trip. When I say "fine" I mean that 10 PPM was about the highest on average. 0 would be better, of course, but 10 PPM seemed to be ok. The divemaster knowingly dove the 25 PPM tank without issue. However, it was a shallow dive (40 fsw max? Don't quote me on that), and even he acknowledged that at deeper depths, things may have ended up differently.

Personally, I think that Infra / Meridiano 87 is grossly negligent. However, I have come to realize that even if a fill station did actually invest in inline CO detection (god forbid they invest $xxx to $x,xxx for the safety of their customers), I would still only feel comfortable in checking every tank I dove with anyway. And my buddy's tank, and the DM's, and anyone else who wants theirs checked.

As an aside, one DM asked me to check his tank, post-dive (again, filled by Infra / Meridiano 87). He said the air smelled and tasted oily. I held the reg up to my nose and purged, and indeed it did smell unusual. It also tasted unusual. I guess it would be considered "oily". When tested for CO, it came out fine. That doesn't prove anything one way or another of course, I just thought it was a little interesting to share.

The DM was Carlos from The Reef Divers, who runs the Sherwood Depot dive shop with his brother Hernan, just in case anyone wants to verify (the DM who dove the 25 PPM tank is named Jordan, who owns the boat "Picaron"). The CO detection setup I was using is what suprane posted here. One thing I learned is not to store the CO bottle with the valve attached, as it appears to leak CO, albeit slowly in my case.

 

[DandyDon]

Last week we had a tank on the boat - filled by Meridiano 87 - that repeatedly tested at what I would consider a high level of CO, at a high of 25 PPM. By "repeatedly" I mean that I tested it 4 - 5 times, and it consistently tested high. The other tanks on the boat checked out fine (also filled by Meridiano), as did all of the other tanks I tested throughout the entire trip. When I say "fine" I mean that 10 PPM was about the highest on average. 0 would be better, of course, but 10 PPM seemed to be ok. The divemaster knowingly dove the 25 PPM tank without issue. However, it was a shallow dive (40 fsw max? Don't quote me on that), and even he acknowledged that at deeper depths, things may have ended up differently.

Personally, I think that Infra / Meridiano 87 is grossly negligent. However, I have come to realize that even if a fill station did actually invest in inline CO detection (god forbid they invest $xxx to $x,xxx for the safety of their customers), I would still only feel comfortable in checking every tank I dove with anyway. And my buddy's tank, and the DM's, and anyone else who wants theirs checked.

As an aside, one DM asked me to check his tank, post-dive (again, filled by Infra / Meridiano 87). He said the air smelled and tasted oily. I held the reg up to my nose and purged, and indeed it did smell unusual. It also tasted unusual. I guess it would be considered "oily". When tested for CO, it came out fine. That doesn't prove anything one way or another of course, I just thought it was a little interesting to share.

The DM was Carlos from The Reef Divers, who runs the Sherwood Depot dive shop with his brother Hernan, just in case anyone wants to verify (the DM who dove the 25 PPM tank is named Jordan, who owns the boat "Picaron"). The CO detection setup I was using is what suprane posted here. One thing I learned is not to store the CO bottle with the valve attached, as it appears to leak CO, albeit slowly in my case.

That really just sucks. I know that you are a amateur, not a trained technician, but you were using a well respected tester and you seem diligent in you technique. 25 ppm CO is entirely too high to be on a diver boat. Hell, 10 ppm is marginal at best, not even legal in the UK. It was mentioned at the first here that they use Draeger Tubes for testing; it would have been interesting to follow that tank back, ask for such, and video a reaction - but I guess that'd be a bit much.

Of the ways that a tank might have an oily taste or smell, it could happen without CO - and vice versa, but that's all most agencies tell us to check. Blowing tank air thru a white rag can tell more.

Well, most stations are not going to install inline monitors until they have to, but I'm with you. Even if I see one in operation, I want to test my own tanks.

I have not seen a Coz operator yet offer to acquire CO testers for customers to use like they do Nitrox...

 

[Scared Silly]

One comment regarding visual inspections and the lack of stickers. I once asked a dive operator about not seeing stickers. They said they regularly (as in everything three months) pull all of the cylinders and inspect them and that with all the cylinders they had it was not worth putting stickers on every three months. While the industry standard for personal cylinders is visuals once a year, the standard for rentals is more frequent depending on usage. As such, here again one needs to ask the operator questions. Lots of questions.

RubberD - my personal standard is I will not dive a cylinder that registers more than CO level of 5ppm. If I get anything in 3-4 range and I let OP know.

As for the fill station being "grossly negligent". That is perhaps a bit much. Negligence implies failing to take proper care in doing something. If the station has followed proper maintenance, had quarterly checks (the previous standard), etc. without a problem and then suddenly has a single incident. IMHO they are not negligent.

Now based on a single incident should they install an active CO monitoring? Maybe, all depends on if they were able to figure out the cause. Now if another incident happens it probably would be prudent to not only review their procedures and look at being more proactive (i.e. install in line monitoring).

What I am trying to point out as much as we want dive ops to be pro-active we have to realize that it will take time to raise the standards just like it took time for air bags which were optional in the mid 70s in the USA to become standard in the 2000s. In some countries airbags are still not standard. So perhaps 25 years from now in line CO testing will be standard in many places but not all. So whether driving or diving wear your seat belt and test your gas.

 

[beachnik]

Last week we had a tank on the boat - filled by Meridiano 87 - that repeatedly tested at what I would consider a high level of CO, at a high of 25 PPM. ....

RubberD,

If you have a way to contact your dive operator, it'd be great if you could encourage them to call Meridiano about this (assuming you haven't asked them to do so already).

As I mentioned before, Meridiano knows about the concern that scubaboarders have, but I don't think they are in here pouring over our posts. There's only one person at Meridiano who speaks English - the secretary.

I can't tell you for sure that complaining will produce results, but not complaining will definitely produce no improvement.

Analox...
In my original post I mentioned I'd contact Analox and ask them to get in touch with Meridiano. I emailed Michelle in the UK office 3 days ago. Haven't heard anything back.

 

[RubberDucky]

That really just sucks. I know that you are a amateur, not a trained technician, but you were using a well respected tester and you seem diligent in you technique. 25 ppm CO is entirely too high to be on a diver boat.

I agree. Other divers would ask me what the acceptable amount about of CO was. I told them I didn't know, but typical readings were between 3 - 10 ppm, and no one had any issues thus far. There is no way I would've dove a 25 ppm tank, no matter what the depth. It was the anomaly of the trip, and I wasn't feeling much like a guinea pig. At first I thought that perhaps somehow there was ambient air getting into the test line, perhaps some exhaust from the boat was interfering. However, when I removed the line from the ToxiRae and allowed the bump test to continue, the numbers dropped drastically every time. I told the DM that he was a braver man than I, and that I would be keeping my eye on him

RubberD - my personal standard is I will not dive a cylinder that registers more than CO level of 5ppm. If I get anything in 3-4 range and I let OP know.

In my very limited experience testing air thus far, I can tell you those standards would have meant a lot of time sitting on the boat. It's not that I disagree either. I wasn't thrilled to get readings of 5, 6, 11, etc. I made a completely unfounded assumption that those levels were probably the norm, since they were fairly consistent across all of the tanks I'd tested. Therefore, it would probably be ok to dive. It really came down to "let's try and see what happens".

As for the fill station being "grossly negligent". That is perhaps a bit much. Negligence implies failing to take proper care in doing something. If the station has followed proper maintenance, had quarterly checks (the previous standard), etc. without a problem and then suddenly has a single incident. IMHO they are not negligent.

I agree to some extent. Perhaps the phrasing was somewhat overly dramatic. However, I do not believe that an affordable, unobtrusive safety measure should be spared when it comes to dealing with peoples' lives. I am a firm believer in preventive maintenance and being proactive, vice waiting for something bad to happen first. All fill stations have perfect records until their first bad tank.

Coupled with the fact that it is no secret what can happen when diving bad air, I do think it's very irresponsible to not ensure that each tank filled checks out ok.

What I am trying to point out as much as we want dive ops to be pro-active we have to realize that it will take time to raise the standards just like it took time for air bags which were optional in the mid 70s in the USA to become standard in the 2000s. In some countries airbags are still not standard. So perhaps 25 years from now in line CO testing will be standard in many places but not all. So whether driving or diving wear your seat belt and test your gas.

This is why I tell the DMs I dive with that I personally feel they should talk to Meridiano about inline detection. The best I can do right now is to educate myself and others, just as many others have educated me right here on ScubaBoard. Indeed it is a process, an evolution of sorts. Hopefully the number of people that will die or suffer permanent injury from bad air in the next 25 years will be lower than the cost of CO detection for both fill stations and individual divers.

I think it would be fascinating to have a resource, such as a website, where divers could learn how to test their own air. Additionally, divers who are testing their tanks could record information such as dive shop name and location, fill station name and location, type of air used, tank CO levels, testing device(s) utilized, testing method fully detailed, dive profile from the past n days to day of test, etc. Having a public, searchable database of this information would be fascinating, imho, and would do good to help spread awareness. Maybe one day I'll get off my butt...

 

[DandyDon]

Analox...
In my original post I mentioned I'd contact Analox and ask them to get in touch with Meridiano. I emailed Michelle in the UK office 3 days ago. Haven't heard anything back.

I will pm you Patti's email address. You can also contact her on the manufacture's forum.