AOW right after OWD

[t4e]

IMO, if you're bothered by having to perform basic skills like mask clearing or retrieveing a lost regulator - you REALLY should be tested. It should take zero effort and close to zero time and can EASILLY be done as part of an easy dive...
I actually think that if having to prove you can clear your mask or retrieve a regulator make you upset, youre not as confident in your skills as you should be.
Ok, one exception - Ive heard of people on this board that got told off for doing skills hovering instead of kneeling on the bottomn - THAT is fully acceptable to be upset over..

i have no problem performing the skills, i just don't want to be wasting my time and money having to prove them again and again...they wanna offer me the checkout dive free, maybe i will reconsider....they wanna do that for 5 minutes as part of a regular dive, i may reconsider too...but to do a straight out check out dive all over again, no way

it doesn't upset me because i will not dive with that shop, i am confident in my skills and i am confident in my judgement not to dive beyond my skill, i expect the shop to treat me like a responsible adult and not like some liar or impostor...that is all there is to it...and that is my personal opinion

 

[DevonDiver]

It also requires either (1) the check-out to be free... and/or (2) every dive operation to conduct check-outs. Otherwise, you can commit business suicide by charging/demanding a check-out dive when competitors don't. It works well in the Maldives because each resort/dive center has a captive market. They can make their rules as they see fit and the customer has no choice but to comply... there is no immediate competition. That's not true in many/most diving areas.

I dont think it would be buisness suicide for a single/a few shops to require it while others dont - theres quite a lot of people that'd rather not dive with idiots..

Tigerman.....and there's quite a few who will.... Taa! Daa!

i have no problem performing the skills, i just don't want to be wasting my time and money having to prove them again and again...they wanna offer me the checkout dive free, maybe i will reconsider....they wanna do that for 5 minutes as part of a regular dive, i may reconsider too...but to do a straight out check out dive all over again, no way

it doesn't upset me because i will not dive with that shop, i am confident in my skills and i am confident in my judgement not to dive beyond my skill, i expect the shop to treat me like a responsible adult and not like some liar or impostor...that is all there is to it...and that is my personal opinion

t4e - Did you ever encounter a less than optimum buddy? Have a problem on a dive because of them? If not, sooner or later you will... Now think, if you are doing the check-out, then so are your potential buddies. Put ego aside and realise the benefit of the dive center having a good understanding of all their customers capabilities.

I was a technical diver and instructor with 3000+ dives when I last visited the Maldives. I was asked to do a check-out...had to demonstrate hover, mask remove/replace etc. My attitude to that was grateful. I liked that they had a universal standard - which ensured I wouldn't end up on a dive boat people diving beyond their capabilities (they had 'novice' and 'advanced' boat trips).

Ego... it's karma in action..

 

[Tigerman]

Tigerman.....and there's quite a few who will.... Taa! Daa!

Well yeah, but a lot of people is fine with driving a cheap, basic, lada, while some rather spend more money on a more expencive, better equipped volvo, bmw or toyota - the latter even have that fancy "auto throttle" which is WAY better than just cruise control

t4e - Did you ever encounter a less than optimum buddy? Have a problem on a dive because of them? If not, sooner or later you will... Now think, if you are doing the check-out, then so are your potential buddies. Put ego aside and realise the benefit of the dive center having a good understanding of all their customers capabilities.

I was a technical diver and instructor with 3000+ dives when I last visited the Maldives. I was asked to do a check-out...had to demonstrate hover, mask remove/replace etc. My attitude to that was grateful. I liked that they had a universal standard - which ensured I wouldn't end up on a dive boat people diving beyond their capabilities (they had 'novice' and 'advanced' boat trips).

Ego... it's karma in action..

Thats a very good point too

 

[dfx]

Yes, logbook entries can be made up and easilly as such when it says "Dive 43, 22 meters, 47 minutes, saw 2 crabs". However if it holds SAC rates, descriptions/maps of the site, detailed information on whats been seen, pressure in, pressure out, weight, suit, etc. its kinda more hassle to make it up than its worth..

Yeah but who does that, really? Maybe 1% of all divers? Including some generous rounding up? Hardly something you can realistically use...

 

[t4e]

t4e - Did you ever encounter a less than optimum buddy? Have a problem on a dive because of them? If not, sooner or later you will... Now think, if you are doing the check-out, then so are your potential buddies. Put ego aside and realise the benefit of the dive center having a good understanding of all their customers capabilities.

luckily i never did and never will, my buddy is my husband

so far the dives we took, the only issue was air consumption and whoever was low had to head up and the rest continued the dive until low air or time was reached
also in the places we chose to dive there has never been an option to go to sites that were beyond our limits
i know that because i have contacted each dive shop before making the final decision where to go
i agree that dead divers are not good for business but there is a reason they ask you to sign a release form
i still believe that is each divers responsibility to know their limits and watch out for their safety

 

[Tigerman]

Yeah but who does that, really? Maybe 1% of all divers? Including some generous rounding up? Hardly something you can realistically use...

All of the divers I dive with actually log pressure in, pressure out, depth, date, site and any interesting observations or lack there of. Most of them also log weight and what equipment they are using. Some, mostly female, draw stuff..
Then again we tend to average 200+ dives across the boat as well, guides not included..

 

[Frosty]

i have no problem performing the skills, i just don't want to be wasting my time and money having to prove them again and again...they wanna offer me the checkout dive free, maybe i will reconsider....they wanna do that for 5 minutes as part of a regular dive, i may reconsider too...but to do a straight out check out dive all over again, no way

it doesn't upset me because i will not dive with that shop, i am confident in my skills and i am confident in my judgement not to dive beyond my skill, i expect the shop to treat me like a responsible adult and not like some liar or impostor...that is all there is to it...and that is my personal opinion

T4e -Ive been lucky enough to have done a fair bit of resort diving around the pacific lately.Funnilly enough not once have I been asked to do a checkout dive.But the reason is I WANT and ask to do an easy "shakedown" dive as soon as I arrive. I do this because first of all I like to get comfortable with my tropical gear setup. Second is I want to be sure I'm not diving with cowboys. Third -WITHOUT EXCEPTION I find Im treated totally differently to other divers Im with. Basicly the crew leave me to my own devices.Trusting I know what I'm doing even if my instabuddy doesn't.
Lastly -strictly my personal observation but every dive op's setup,rules,signals,are slightly different.Not significant differences but enough to make it worth while doing a lazy dive with them before anything serious.
Frankly I can't see a single reason NOT to do a checkout dive

 

[t4e]

T4e -Ive been lucky enough to have done a fair bit of resort diving around the pacific lately.Funnilly enough not once have I been asked to do a checkout dive.But the reason is I WANT and ask to do an easy "shakedown" dive as soon as I arrive. I do this because first of all I like to get comfortable with my tropical gear setup. Second is I want to be sure I'm not diving with cowboys. Third -WITHOUT EXCEPTION I find Im treated totally differently to other divers Im with. Basicly the crew leave me to my own devices.Trusting I know what I'm doing even if my instabuddy doesn't.
Lastly -strictly my personal observation but every dive op's setup,rules,signals,are slightly different.Not significant differences but enough to make it worth while doing a lazy dive with them before anything serious.
Frankly I can't see a single reason NOT to do a checkout dive

as i said before, maybe didn't come across as intended, something like you describe above is acceptable
from my experience of the last two trips, we dove with the same operation in DR and Mexico and they have very strict rules across all their worldwide operations and that's why i like them, they religiously do a through briefing, covering everything from procedure to get in the boat to how to enter/exit the water, where to gather etc
usually their groups are 4 to 1 DM, if it was more then 2 DM's will be there, my guess is that they do watch everyone and make an opinion because at some point we were told "you two are fine, can do your thing", one dive in fact my mask continuously flooded the whole dive, never did it before never done it since, and when i told him after we were done he said "yes, i noticed"
mind you the sites where not deeper then 45-50ft

i'm not saying i'm expert or anything but i am saying that if they don't ask me for the checkout dive i don't take it as lack of safety or something, because i know we would not put ourselves in a situations beyond what we know we can handle
right now our OW certification allows us to go to 130FT, would we ever exceed 80FT any time soon?...not a chance.

 

[Abdullah]

All of the divers I dive with actually log pressure in, pressure out, depth, date, site and any interesting observations or lack there of. Most of them also log weight and what equipment they are using. Some, mostly female, draw stuff..
Then again we tend to average 200+ dives across the boat as well, guides not included..

Agree.

If you look at your logbook as a record of your trophies (dives), then you probably don't have much detail. But, if you look at your logbook as an aid to improve your diving, you will probably have a lot of detail. I like to track SAC vs. water temperature and work load as well as a number of other details. I have a couple different styles of tanks (Al & steel, single and doubles) as well as the occasional stage and deco cylinders. I have a couple of different exposure suits that weight differently. I also like to document good photo ops and potential hazards in particular dive locations. I can use all this data to more thoroughly prepare for future dives and improve my diving.

The information you enter into your log tells people a lot about your approach to diving.

 

[dfx]

All of the divers I dive with actually log pressure in, pressure out, depth, date, site and any interesting observations or lack there of. Most of them also log weight and what equipment they are using. Some, mostly female, draw stuff..
Then again we tend to average 200+ dives across the boat as well, guides not included..

99% of divers' logbooks that I have seen:

Max depth, dive time, temperature and visibility. "I saw a red fish and two blue fish".

The 1% have:

descriptions of the site (sometimes maps), current directions (there can be many), SAC/RMV rates, exposure suit/tank/weight requirements... as well as "3 red fish and 9 blue fish".