attaching octo via snap bolt

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Panic is certainly a possibility. They can bolt or grab whichever reg they feel like.

However "agressive" as in attack you for some reason, isn't one of the responses unless you try to stop them from getting air.

In that case, it's likely that there will soon be two dead divers.



That's correct. In real panic, the response will be "GO UP FAST" or "GET AIR"

Hey Flotsam,

You wrote: "In that case, it's likely that there will soon be two dead divers."

Please clarify your statement. Is it better for the responsible diver to offer up his life to the irresponsible diver who mugs a regulator out of the responsible diver's face so that one survives? Rips his reg out of his face and maybe his mask to? Where does it end?

I know that two of us on this thread are writing about an extreme situation, but as a person who is interested in living, I have thought through extreme contingencies.

Please clarify and expand your thoughts so I understand your opinion better.

thanks,
markm
 
To say an OOA diver will not become aggressive dismisses the fact that they were a bad enough diver to run out of air. Someone that unfocused is way more likely to panic in a bad situation. I have been accosted by a new diver in near total panic and he still had air, just wanted my reg for some unknown reason. Not everyone is going to "Stop, think, act." Some will just act, and we better be ready for that. Another reason I went to a necklace. If they want my primary, they are welcome to it.
RichH
RichH

The reaction of a given diver to any emergency will run the gamut of possibilities ... everything from calm, by-the-book to completely irrational ... depending on the diver. But I think a lot of these suppositions are based on either stories told to you by an instructor, or things read on the internet.

Panic is a reaction induced by being faced with a problem you don't know how to resolve ... it's our basic, hard-wired "fight or flight" instinct. If a diver is approaching you for an air donation, they are acting on a resolution to their problem, and the chances of getting "mugged" are very unlikely. It's when that donation doesn't go well that their instincts are more likely to kick in ... and this is quite more likely with a new diver, who hasn't yet developed enough experience to think through alternatives than it is with a more experienced diver.

As for why your new diver wanted air, the most likely reason is that he just checked his gauge and realized he didn't have enough left to finish the dive, or make it to the surface. Or perhaps he was having a problem with his reg ... either it was breathing hard (improperly tuned or the adjustment knob on the spring was too tight) or maybe he just slurped some water and assumed his reg wasn't working right. Either of those possibilities would cause a diver to want air from someone else.

And FWIW - some divers put their primary on a necklace, and stow an octopus. Don't assume if you see a diver wearing a necklace that it's for the backup reg ... some, especially those who chronically dive in areas with surf, necklace their primary so if they lose it they can easily find and replace it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
The reaction of a given diver to any emergency will run the gamut of possibilities ... everything from calm, by-the-book to completely irrational ... depending on the diver. But I think a lot of these suppositions are based on either stories told to you by an instructor, or things read on the internet.

Panic is a reaction induced by being faced with a problem you don't know how to resolve ... it's our basic, hard-wired "fight or flight" instinct. If a diver is approaching you for an air donation, they are acting on a resolution to their problem, and the chances of getting "mugged" are very unlikely. It's when that donation doesn't go well that their instincts are more likely to kick in ... and this is quite more likely with a new diver, who hasn't yet developed enough experience to think through alternatives than it is with a more experienced diver.

As for why your new diver wanted air, the most likely reason is that he just checked his gauge and realized he didn't have enough left to finish the dive, or make it to the surface. Or perhaps he was having a problem with his reg ... either it was breathing hard (improperly tuned or the adjustment knob on the spring was too tight) or maybe he just slurped some water and assumed his reg wasn't working right. Either of those possibilities would cause a diver to want air from someone else.

And FWIW - some divers put their primary on a necklace, and stow an octopus. Don't assume if you see a diver wearing a necklace that it's for the backup reg ... some, especially those who chronically dive in areas with surf, necklace their primary so if they lose it they can easily find and replace it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Actually my aggressive diver was an unattended Discover Scuba person at ~85' in Belize. He was swimming alone and when I noticed him I motioned for him to join my wife and I. We swam for a few minutes, he panicked and went for my reg. After discouraging his effort, very forcefully, he continued the dive to it's conclusion. The PADI instructor and I had words after the incident for obvious reasons. There is only one diver for whom I will risk certain death and her name is Diane. For all the others I will do everything in my power to help, but at some point that help will be withdrawn in favor of survival.
RichH
 
I attach a snap bolt to my second 2nd stage with a thin O-ring. Holds it well but can be released (broken) with a tug. I tried a garden hose washer but it takes too much force to break it, holds good though.
 
Hey Flotsam,

You wrote: "In that case, it's likely that there will soon be two dead divers."

Please clarify your statement. Is it better for the responsible diver to offer up his life to the irresponsible diver who mugs a regulator out of the responsible diver's face so that one survives?

You seem to have the idea that "out of air" or panic results in a "James Bond Underwater Death Match." It doesn't. Or at least it doesn't unless you turn it into one. The other diver is out of air. If you've been diving as trained, you have enough to share and have an extra reg to share it with.

All that's required is that the out of air diver be given or takes an air source.

This should not require "offering up your life." It's just a regulator. Without trying to be too offensive, if having a reg pulled out of your mouth or knocked out by hitting an obstruction in low viz is fatal, I don't think the OOA diver is the biggest problem.

Rips his reg out of his face and maybe his mask to? Where does it end?

Neither of those should be more than an annoyance.

You always have at least one spare regulator, you always have extra gas, and although masks are nice to have, they're completely optional. They're not required for breathing, and if you can accept blurry vision aren't even required for seeing.

flots.
 
flots am
An OOA situation should never be more than an annoyance. However, that depends on how the OOA diver, and the donor, react. With experienced, intelligent divers, it should be no problem. Since one diver ran out of air it indicates to me, possibly, that only one diver has the experience and intelligence to keep the situation under control. I would suggest that the donor will not be the one to panic, if anyone does. I will also suggest that the OOA diver is at some level of incompetence. The incompetence may bleed over to other skills besides checking one's gauges on a regular basis. While it will be up to the donor to control the situation, it will be the OOA diver who dictates what that situation is. Hopefully everyone recognizes the situation is controllable and only an inconvenience and that there need not be a James Bond underwater struggle. That seems to be the OOA divers task. My task as a donor is to do everything I can without unduly risking my life or health.
RichH
 
You seem to have the idea that "out of air" or panic results in a "James Bond Underwater Death Match." It doesn't. Or at least it doesn't unless you turn it into one. The other diver is out of air. If you've been diving as trained, you have enough to share and have an extra reg to share it with.

All that's required is that the out of air diver be given or takes an air source.

This should not require "offering up your life." It's just a regulator. Without trying to be too offensive, if having a reg pulled out of your mouth or knocked out by hitting an obstruction in low viz is fatal, I don't think the OOA diver is the biggest problem.



Neither of those should be more than an annoyance.

You always have at least one spare regulator, you always have extra gas, and although masks are nice to have, they're completely optional. They're not required for breathing, and if you can accept blurry vision aren't even required for seeing.

flots.

Hey Flots,

I wrote: "I know that two of us on this thread are writing about an extreme situation,..." (post #51 from this thread)

Your point is well taken regarding the odds of an OOA diver becoming dangerously aggressive, so I agree with you on that point, now and before.

I will probably never encounter an OOA diver, let alone a panicked one. I usually dive with reasonably experienced and reasonably trained divers. When newbies are around, I let the professionals take care of them. When I do agree to dive with an insta-buddy, I check his/her gas consumption during the dive and offer my SPG for them to check. I don't insta-buddy unless I have chatted-up the person before hand.

Thanks for your feedback,
markm

---------- Post added May 1st, 2014 at 03:46 PM ----------

I attach a snap bolt to my second 2nd stage with a thin O-ring. Holds it well but can be released (broken) with a tug. I tried a garden hose washer but it takes too much force to break it, holds good though.

Hello AfterDark,

I am going to try this!!

Good technique.

markm

---------- Post added May 1st, 2014 at 04:04 PM ----------

Aguablanco,

I agree with your posts on this thread; notwithstanding, this quote: "With experienced, intelligent divers, it should be no problem."

I would submit, as you have eluded to in other posts, that experienced and intelligent divers would not have an OOA situation, and if they suffered a catastrophic regulator failure, they would have the discipline to stay with their buddy, or have a redundant gas supply, or like me, they would have both. So, back to your earlier point about the type of diver who has OOA issue may very well react very poorly (I know, I am splitting hairs again--but it is very sharp knife!).

markm
 
Hello everyone, hope you're having a good day.

After never really having a proper octopus holder (always had been looped in a d ring) and speaking to a dm, who said that because i have milfix, it's not good to have double back on itself. so i was looking for regulator holders and just saw snap bolts so i've attached snap bolts to both of my regs. i attached to primary because when on liveaboards, i have sat or seen my primary sat on, so thought it would be good that once out of the water, i can clip it out of the way. but if i clip my octo on, will my potential buddy be a bit "upset" because in an emergency they can't just yank it off me?
i'm yet to do the rescue diver course, but plan to this summer. i've heard that, during the rescue diver course they tell you to pass the octo rather than let the other person just grab it. if so, surely it's fine to have it clipped?

i'm not a tec diver and i don't have a long primary hose, just the standard hose length and set up really. not trying to look tec just seems practical is all.

your views?

I agree with others - do not use a boltsnap on your occy. I don't understand the issue with Miflex though - their hoses are more flexible than the typical rubber hoses.
 
I have a boltsnap tied to my octopus with cave line. When clipped onto my BP/W, it hangs close enough that if I lose my primary, for whatever reason, I can duck my head down, and grab my octo with my mouth. It's secure, eminently deployable, and streamlined.
 
To OP

Use anything you want to attach your AAS as long as it holds and pulls off right away and is in your triangle.
Snorkel keeper or rubber octo holder - $2.00 at most shops
Necklace if you like your octo that way $7.00 to $12.00. or make one from stretch chord for next to nothing
Practice switching them out all the time with yourself and with your buddy so it is second nature. Brief your new buddies on your preferred method if they are OOA.
 

Back
Top Bottom