BC help

[wrek]

I am new to diving, with 15 tropical dives. I live in NJ and want to dive here. My local dive shop suggested I get a dry suit and an OMS IQ BP with the 45 lb bungee bladder.

I really like the OMS system, but I have a few concerns:
I have read that the back inflation systems keep your face in the water at the surface. I am concerned about choppy water and safety issues etc. Any thoughts on the subject?

Because I am relatively new to diving, am I pushing it a bit by looking into a BP system ?

Also, I have read conflicting info about bungee systems causing an entanglement issue or trapping air, but also that the non bungee systems trap air pockets depending on your orientation, and jacket styles squeeze and aren't great for dry suits.
(I won't always be using a dry suit)

Finally,
should I just go with a hybrid type such as the Mares dragonfly, which has back and side inflation?

 

[Gator Diver]

I was in your position a few short months ago....
i found this board very helpful and the SEARCH
button even more helpful....

to answer your question you can adjust
for the changes in the back inflate BC
pretty easily with a little modification in your style
like floating on your back

happy diving

 

[DA Aquamaster]

wrek once bubbled...
I really like the OMS system, but I have a few concerns:
I have read that the back inflation systems keep your face in the water at the surface. I am concerned about choppy water and safety issues etc. Any thoughts on the subject?

In most cases a back floatation BC or wing will not float you face forward unless it is fully inflated at the surface. Even then we are still talking only about being face forward if you are not concious. It is not really the problem it is made out to be. Our local dive team decided not to go to back inflates because of this and it was a big mistake, particularly given that a saftey diver is always present. It's a BC not a life jacket, so you should not be using it like one anyway.

Because I am relatively new to diving, am I pushing it a bit by looking into a BP system?

No. I started with the wing and BP equivelent in 1985 and had no problems at all. In many ways it is much simpler and easier to manage than some BC's.

Also, I have read conflicting info about bungee systems causing an entanglement issue or trapping air,

The famous bungee wings of death comment. Yes, in wreck penetration it is potentially an entanglement issue. For OW diving entanglement would not really be an issue, but there is another downside. The bungees work well to compress the aircell, to keep it compact when only partially filled and to help vent the aircell and prevent air trapping. However this same pressure from the bungees also prevents you from orally inflating the BC at the surface, whihc in my opinion is a potentially a much bigger problem, particularly if you dive a wet suit.

but also that the non bungee systems trap air pockets depending on your orientation, and jacket styles squeeze and aren't great for dry suits. (I won't always be using a dry suit)

I have never had a sinificnat problems with air trapping as long as you have good body position. In rare cases, you need to shift a few degrees to dump air when the wing is almost empty but it becomes intuitive with a little experience and is not a problem.

Jacket style can squeeze depending on the design although today most are designed to inflate outward and won't squeeze you. The big issue with a dry suit is whether or not a jacket clutters up your chest and restricts access to the inflator valve or alternatively whether the bulk of the jacket in the shoulder area restricts access to the dump valve.

 

[wrek]

I think I will try the OMS system in my LDS pool.

Thanks for the advice.
Your responses help to alleviate some of the fears and misconceptions about initial investment in equipment.

 

[Chilly]

Yes thanks too : I was about to post much the same question....- I 've been attracted to a wing set up as a first BC but thought it might be considered ambitious; sounds from what you say that it's not such a ridiculous idea. However one of the things that attracted me was that they often appear less cluttered and I perceived they might be good on wreck penetrations. Any thoughts? (To date have dived rental/borrowed Jacket BC's without falling in love with any of 'em..I dive in Scotland with a drysuit mostly.)

 

[doole]

I notice some OMS's don't have the bungee, these days. If you're locked into OMS I might look at that.

In any case, you'll be unlikely to be sorry about using a backplate; most comfortable and effective thing going. The simpler and more streamlined however, the better you're going to like it. You might try comparing some other backplates. HIH

 

[jonnythan]

Here are the easy answers:

wrek once bubbled...
I am new to diving, with 15 tropical dives. I live in NJ and want to dive here. My local dive shop suggested I get a dry suit and an OMS IQ BP with the 45 lb bungee bladder.

I really like the OMS system, but I have a few concerns:
I have read that the back inflation systems keep your face in the water at the surface. I am concerned about choppy water and safety issues etc. Any thoughts on the subject?

Drysuit good idea, OMS IQ BP not so good idea. Save some money and upgrade in terms of adjustability, stability, price, buoyancy (or lack therof), streamlining, and simplicity and get an Oxycheq single tank setup at http://www.covci.com/wings.htm instead. You can get a real single tank wing too, not some OMS doubles wing that "works for singles."

Because I am relatively new to diving, am I pushing it a bit by looking into a BP system ?

No. It's a great idea. I did the same thing and I couldn't be any happier. The bp/wing is impressively stable, simple, streamlined, easy to use and set up.. I love it.

Also, I have read conflicting info about bungee systems causing an entanglement issue or trapping air, but also that the non bungee systems trap air pockets depending on your orientation, and jacket styles squeeze and aren't great for dry suits.
(I won't always be using a dry suit)

The bungied wings trap air, not the non-bungied ones. You'll have no problems with trapped air in a standard single tank wing (which OMS doesn't even sell).

Finally,
should I just go with a hybrid type such as the Mares dragonfly, which has back and side inflation?

No.

 

[The Chairman]

As to which is better... BP & wing or BC. I like 'em both and I dive 'em both. Neither is safer, and they both have different benefits.

For singles, nothing is more comfortable than my Oceanic Chute II back inflate BC. I love my trim and and quite comfortable with it. Long walks are no problems with the padding and all, and I have total control over my diving. If I don't fill the wing full, I am never face first on the surface.

For doubles, nothing is more solid than my BP & wings. Although it is not nearly as comfortable out of the water, it pretty much disappears when I get in. I am more than stable with this and my trim is also great.

I even have both a "plain" wing and the infamous BWOD. The long and short of it is that there has never been an accident (fatal or not) that was caused by the bungees. Oral inflation is simple enough too, as I did my OW checkout with mine. I think that these divers genuinely distrust them, but they play the "safety" card way too much. IOW, they invent safety scenarios that can never happen to justify their stance on the issue.

Now, you are going to run across some passionate people on this subject and they will arguing on this both ways. The fallacy is that they are going to try and convince us that one way is safer than the other. but very rarely will dive gear pose a safety hazard. In fact, it is far more likely that diver stupidity will pose such a hazard. The gear is going to operate in the manner that the diver uses it. If the diver makes an error in judgement, then the gear will go right along with him. It will make no suggestion or comment concerning the way in which a diver conducts their dive.

Bottom line? Listen to what each side has to say, and then go dive them yourself and find out which one you like better. You are in charge of your dives; not me or anyone else. Consequently, you had best be sure that you are comfortable with what ever you dive. Passionate divers are the best... just don't let their passion force you to dive in a manner that is not suited to you. Be safe and have fun... the rest is just details.

 

[doole]

NetDoc said...
The long and short of it is that there has never been an accident (fatal or not) that was caused by the bungees. Oral inflation is simple enough too, as I did my OW checkout with mine. I think that these divers genuinely distrust them, but they play the "safety" card way too much. IOW, they invent safety scenarios that can never happen to justify their stance on the issue.

Now, you are going to run across some passionate people on this subject and they will arguing on this both ways. The fallacy is that they are going to try and convince us that one way is safer than the other. but very rarely will dive gear pose a safety hazard. In fact, it is far more likely that diver stupidity will pose such a hazard. The gear is going to operate in the manner that the diver uses it. If the diver makes an error in judgement, then the gear will go right along with him.

Refreshingly wise words.

NetDoc: The oral inflation issue really put me off these - is it really not an issue?

 

[jonnythan]

doole once bubbled...


Refreshingly wise words.

NetDoc: The oral inflation issue really put me off these - is it really not an issue?

I don't think that would really be much of an issue, but I'm sure the air trapping one is. And it just looks stupid as hell. Whatever your take on the BWOD, it'll make you "that idiot" to a lot of people Not that that should matter.

Just ask yourself... why do you really want the bungees?