"buy equipment here" speech in OW first class!

[bp_968]

Ok so today was our (my wife and I) first OW class. Now let me say, I have been very impressed with how friendly this LDS is, I love the customer support, and thats why I picked them for classes. Ok, so about 30 minutes into our first class the instructor goes into a "buy your own equipment speech". I made the mistake of asking about Zeagle, "Yuck garbage, terrible equipment". So I asked him what he recommended. He suggested, name for name, everything the LDS sold. He even suggested doing a layaway plan. I mentioned that this sounded a little like a sales presentation to a trapped audience. He said he gets no "kick back" or commission. I asked him to name a piece of gear that he recommends that is *NOT* sold at that LDS. For the life of him he couldn't think of a single piece of gear that he would recommend that wasn't sold at the LDS.

He also gave the "life support" speech. You might buy this or that online but would you buy life support?? Actually, I have.. most of my climbing gear was bought online, and I haven't plunged to my death yet.

I mean honestly. He can't name *ONE* piece of gear that he would recommend thats not sold at that shop. Do I have dumb*** written on my forehead?

With my usually argumentative personality I have a feeling I will probably let him know at some point what an excellent job he has done in talking me *OUT* of buying anything else at that LDS.

He also said oxygen is toxic at 10fsw. I thought it was 20fsw? Which one is correct?

Ben

 

[alcina]

Ben -

It might pay to have a quiet, private talk with the owner/manager as this seems a bit extreme for an instructor to do. I'd think the instructor would want to give you good reasons why he feels the items stocked in the lds are, in his opinion, very worthy items. Things he may not be familiar with, he should simply say so.

That kind of brow beating is bad for business and I'm sure the manager/owner would want to know...

 

[Canadian_Diver]

He also said oxygen is toxic at 10fsw. I thought it was 20fsw? Which one is correct?

Ben, the guy works for the LDS if he's instructing out of it. He might not get a kick-back or commission directly, but I'm sure there's something in it for him.

Can you blame the guy? That's how the LDS makes money, the guy was doing his job (however, it sounds like he did it very poorly). I agree with alcina, before you blow off the LDS, it might be best to have a nice quiet talk with the owner.

As for O2 toxicity, are we talking 100% pure oxygen, or oxygen at a different PO2?

 

[MB104]

Give the instructor a break. He is doing his best to support the dive shop where he works. If you have an issue with it, descretely take it to his boss and mention the speech. Who knows, maybe the boss told him to give the sales pitch, and he was just doing what his boss told him. As an instructor working for a specific dive shop that sells specific gear, it may even be a requirement to use brands only sold in that shop (my LDS prefers we use the brands they sell, and I have no problem with it, since its quality brands). You may have felt like a captive audience, but businesses are in business to stay in business.

 

[Warren_L]

It would be fair to expect the instructor to know about dive gear, but not necessarily to know about all specific brands, especially brands that are not sold through the shop he teaches at. Like it or not, instructors and dive shops typically need to work together to survive, and would thus inherently have a symbiotic relationship. It could very well be possible that the instructor may have only owned and ever used gear obtained from that shop as the shop would provide special instructor pricing or key man deals which would negate any need for the instructor to look at or buy gear elsewhere. So is it bad that the instructor didn't know any other brands? I don't think so. It would be another story if the instructor didn't know about a piece of gear like a regulator, and if the latter were the case, then I would have concerns.

In the end, the choice is yours. If you're a smart consumer, you will shop around and do your research. The instructor didn't demonstrate a lack of knowledge about dive gear as far as I could tell from your comments. I see no reason to get bent out of shape about that, unless perhaps he was pushing too hard to sell gear. Other than that he's just doing his job, and if you feel strongly about it, go buy your gear elsewhere. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a shop whose instructors don't do the same.

 

[WaterDawg]

Yeah they dont make the $ on instruction they make it on gear sales. There are good points to the buying life support at the LDS (reg,BC) but everything else can be bought online (wet suits are tricky). Sometimes the instructor is contracted out and not a regular sales guy. The LDS Ive seen there is no kick back for the instructors but the shop makes $ and pays the bills/employees.

I wouldnt like that type of biased speech either, but thats bussines.

 

[bp_968]

Ben, the guy works for the LDS if he's instructing out of it. He might not get a kick-back or commission directly, but I'm sure there's something in it for him.

Can you blame the guy? That's how the LDS makes money, the guy was doing his job (however, it sounds like he did it very poorly). I agree with alcina, before you blow off the LDS, it might be best to have a nice quiet talk with the owner.

As for O2 toxicity, are we talking 100% pure oxygen, or oxygen at a different PO2?

True true, I just really felt like I signed up and *paid* for a teaching class, please leave the sales speeches out. And don't get me wrong, I like the instructor and he is very friendly. Of course you have to understand, when I worked for best buy years ago as a PC tech they pushed me out on the sales floor *once*. After they caught me telling people to buy things they didn't sell (much better stuff IMHO) they put me back where I belonged. lol

As to the O2, 100%. I did a quick search and it seems the "safest" level is 1.4ata (or 13.2 feet) or 1.6 for "resting deco" which is 19.8 feet. So 10 feet is just safer then 20. Of course, this is all just for fun since the chances me running on 100% O2 for anything are pretty slim.

Ben

 

[D_B]

You all make valid points that the Instructor is just doing the job that the LDS hired him to do (but very poorly IMO) but when he starts saying stuff like this ... Zeagle, "Yuck garbage, terrible equipment". He loses all credibilaty with me

DB

 

[Kriterian]

What's so hard about having a little honesty? Going on the assumption the instructor is biased to his shop, as opposed to really believing that Zeagle is "crap", why not say something like:

"As far as regulators go, all the brands are fairly safe, good quality stuff. Here at Soandso Dive Shop we've had alot of experience with Brand-X, and stick with those. Go out and do your research, and if you decide on Brand-Y, we'll see about getting it for you."

Of course that whole speech makes another assumption, that the shop is willing to get off it's greedy butt and actually treat you like a customer and not just a wallet that walked in off the street.

 

[CIBDiving]

He also said oxygen is toxic at 10fsw. I thought it was 20fsw? Which one is correct?

Ben

Well, Both are, sorta. it depends on how much time you spend.
Pure O2 is not good for you at sea level - for extended periods of time.

However - the accepted 'max' depth for use of pure O2 is 20 ft.