"buy equipment here" speech in OW first class!

[Canadian_Diver]

Q: Is he getting free stuff?

That's the million dollar question that makes all the difference. He did say that he became an asst. instructor for free stuff... to what extent??? :06:

 

[artusor]

Fair?

I don't know about fair, but if anyone, ever, tried to force me into a sale with tactics like that I would immediately assume that they can't sell any other way but shoddy tactics like that and find another LDS.

I would NEVER stand still for tactics like that.

 

[D_B]

I don't remember ever being given "the buy stuff here" speech
The point I think that was made to us by our instructor was that your gear is likely to last a life time and to get good quality gear and not just entry level gear just for that resion. I did, all my gear and all of it from them, and I think I got good/reasonable prices on all (got a SP Mk18 / 250HP for for $269 - Oceanic console with VEO 200 for $255) just because of the instructors attitude and the store not pressuring to buy there stuff ( I even had a sales rep. for one company, help me find gear more in my price range from another company ... outstanding!)
The instructors / DMs don't get there gear free, are allowed to teach in there own gear and can make there own recomondations if asked by the student , if the shop does not carry that gear

DB

 

[Wayward Son]

The shop where my wife took her class took a low key approach. Students are given a 30% discount on anything in the store until they're certified. They don't get the "buy it here or else" speech, and in the class dealing with different types of equipment, brands & models the shop doesn't carry were discussed.

I personally think the discount until you're certified would work better for the shop if they changed it to 30% off for 6 months. That way you have a chance to actually dive some & make a better decision on what you want.

Both shops in this area require you to have your own mask, snorkel, fins & boots by the start of class. Neither have any requirement that you get them there, just that they are suitable for scuba diving. Both shops tend to offer packages so new divers can get this stuff & save a bit off the individual prices.

 

[BBP]

I purchased most of the more expensive stuff I have online. I just couldn't cost justify the extra bucks I'd pay at a brick and mortar store. I do patronize the LDS where I did my pool and classroom work for annual service and being the dive nerd that I am, I almost always buy something when I go in there. Can't help it. That said, I think a store owner of any kind has the right to present a sales pitch for the products he sells. There's nothing sacred about open water training that prohibits the trainers from exprressing their own opinions about equipment. It's up to the consumers to decide if the sales pitches work or not. I don't see it as an ethical question at all. I see it as a guy trying to make his business work.

BKB

 

[Walter]

Check into independent instructors.

 

[bp_968]

Check into independent instructors.

I will probably have to for on-going training. It depends on how much he balks when I walk in with a few pieces of that Zeagle "crap".

Ben

 

[FreeFloat]

I think that's fair. Personal gear isn't that big of an investment, and you really need to try on your mask and fins in an actual shop. I think it's perfectly acceptable to force them to buy from your shop in order to make sure they get gear that's acceptable.

This probably came more from people getting cheapo masks and fins at Wal Mart or getting stuff that obviously doesn't fit online than sheer greed.

So let's say you walk into a computer store to buy some software you need. Would it be "fair" for the computer store to erfuse to sell you the software unless you sign a contract agreeing that you will purchaase a new computer system from that store in which to install the software??

My own answer to this is glaringly obvious: Find a different store.

In the case of the dive shop, I can certainly agree with them requiring students to have personal gear prior to the course. I can also appreciate them wanting to check over the gear for appropriateness. I can imagine them diong this check-over either prior to the course, or by setting aside time in the beginning of the course. IF the gear required work or adjustment, I could see them charging "labor" for such work at that time, or walking the student to the gear counter and showing the student what would be more serviceable or appropriate.

However, being forced to buy gear from only one source (at likely unreasonable prices!) smacks of coercion/robbery to me.

Jonnythan, I'm a bit surprised at you. I thought you weer the main advocate of "support your LDS, but there's nothing wrong with buying gear off the Internet too"?

 

[FreeFloat]

The shop where my wife took her class took a low key approach. Students are given a 30% discount on anything in the store until they're certified. They don't get the "buy it here or else" speech, and in the class dealing with different types of equipment, brands & models the shop doesn't carry were discussed.

I personally think the discount until you're certified would work better for the shop if they changed it to 30% off for 6 months. That way you have a chance to actually dive some & make a better decision on what you want.

Both shops in this area require you to have your own mask, snorkel, fins & boots by the start of class. Neither have any requirement that you get them there, just that they are suitable for scuba diving. Both shops tend to offer packages so new divers can get this stuff & save a bit off the individual prices.

I like it. There's a LDS here that does the same thing - "student discount". However they offer a similar discount to members of their "dive club" - any diver can buy into teh club for a nominal fee, but successful OW students get their first year of club membership for free - thus extending the discount for a year.

 

[Wayward Son]

Yeah, I like it, but I think they're missing a bit.

My other LDS includes one year in their dive club, free, when you take the class. This shop doesn't. They limit the discount to while you're a student, which may be as short as 2 weeks bc it's a PADI accelerated class where you teach yourself the book at home & only have 4 or 5 sessions with the instructor prior to OW dives. I think this is way too short a time frame for a new diver to be expected to be willing to spend $1000 or more on gear. Many simply won't be able to. I couldn't do that for my wife, I had to spread her gear out over several months.

I don't know if the other shop offers a discount for students, I never asked & have not taken their OW course. I'll have to ask & see what they do about this. They still teach the old style 6 week NAUI course. This gives students a lot more time in the pool & more time to learn about gear. But I don't know what, if anything, they do about student discounts.