"buy equipment here" speech in OW first class!

[PhotoTJ]

I think that's fair. Personal gear isn't that big of an investment, and you really need to try on your mask and fins in an actual shop. I think it's perfectly acceptable to force them to buy from your shop in order to make sure they get gear that's acceptable.

This probably came more from people getting cheapo masks and fins at Wal Mart or getting stuff that obviously doesn't fit online than sheer greed.

Costco, actually. It's a fine line to walk, providing excellent service, fair prices, and at the same time not being taken advantage of. You just have to accept that you are not going to do business with everybody, whether you are consumer or shop owner.

As far as driving around shopping goes, one thing I've noticed is no one seems to ever place any value on their time. If I spend 10 hours looking for gear, and I saved $150 on a reg, but spent $30 in gas, my free time was worth $12 an hour, plus aggrevation/traffic, wear and tear on my car.

My off time is certainly worth more than that!

 

[redacted]

As far as driving around shopping goes, one thing I've noticed is no one seems to ever place any value on their time. If I spend 10 hours looking for gear, and I saved $150 on a reg, but spent $30 in gas, my free time was worth $12 an hour, plus aggrevation/traffic, wear and tear on my car.

My off time is certainly worth more than that!

Or if you can do a little internet shopping at work, it costs the shopper nothing. In fact, you might even be getting paid while you do it (on your breaks of course).

I'll have to think about how much money I "earned" while I was shopping for fair prices!

 

[Canadian_Diver]

No. He said he did it to get in some free diving.

Not sure if that was a typo or not, but I don't instruct and dive for free every weekend... I don't get it.

 

[MissyP]

No, I don't think so. He signed up for the class, not for gear.

.

Bingo. I don't mind my lds making recommendations about gear....but to try to force their merchandise on me, NO.

 

[bp_968]

Sigh~~~

How do you think about the dive shop that charges $250 plus $79 OW check out fee and additional pressure for the gear purchase in Mid-West area? Some members who live in a favorable place for the diving can't imagine what is going on in other world.

Nothing personal,

Interesting that you say that. How about 275$ plus 175$ OW checkout fee? How about the cheapest BC costing over 500$? How about a low-end 3mm being "not that costly.. its less than 300$"?

At least now I see how the owner can afford a 1-2 week dive trip every other month! Obviously the sales pitch works enough to be worthwhile. Sadly (for both of us) I simply don't have the extra cash to sponsor his trips. If I could afford it I would without a doubt buy all my gear there, but I can't talk my landlord down any better then I could talk the shop owner down

Like I said, these guys are super friendly and I like them. I just don't like the tactics. But thats a personal thing, I've always responded poorly to high pressure attempts (I'm a sucker for a sad face though).

BP

 

[alcina]

Wow, the more I read, the more I'm grateful for my dive shop (Dolphin). It wasn't the shop where I was certified, but it's the shop where I'll be doing all other certs because I like the store so much (though loved my previous instructor, who made the owner do the hawking.

...

They've regularly given me great service, great advice, and great prices, and as a result, when I want a class, a trip, or a product they carry, they're my number one choice, because I've never felt any pressure by them for anything, and as a result, they've gotten at least a couple grand out of me or on my behalf.

Despite 'allowing' their customers to buy elsewhere and even off the *gasp* internet without harassment, regularly when I go in there, they are absolutely swamped with customers.

I didn't think this kind of service and friendliness was *that* unusual, but the more I read, wow!

Ishie - so happy to hear a non-horror story for a change! I had no idea - all the shops I've dealt with in the US have been great...granted I don't live there anymore and don't have a "local" but I found the Fl and SoCal shops I've been in quite good. Great that your lds has a clue I knew there had to be a goody somewhere!!

 

[markfm]

I'm in the same boat as Ishie -- good prices, freely given advice, willing to order most things if there's a special item desired (only one that I've heard of that's a NO, but I actually wanted a 19CF pony Less than a 10 minute drive from where I work. Best I can tell all the gear sold is good -- not pushing junk, nor pushing top end highest-priced items.

The "spiel" during my OW class was about as soft as possible -- a decent discount to packages bought during the class, and that was all that was said. I did buy local, have continued to buy local, and staff have continued to provide a consistent discount on just about everything.

 

[Hoosier]

Indeed ...

Like any other business, prices will depend on the cost of producing the product (in this case, costs for things like pool and dive site access will cause some variability), and the availability of competitive products (in other words, what are the other shops in your area charging). In areas where there is less competition, prices will generally be higher (classic supply and demand).

Certainly, I'm quoting local prices ... but the concepts are the same. Dive shops price according to what they have to earn in profit in order to justify staying in business. I've yet to meet a dive shop owner who makes a financial killing from teaching scuba classes ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, you are right. It is all supply and demand. But, I am not sure why supply and demand principle is more likely to apply to the customers than the suppliers in this market. You also mentioned about the infrastructure cost for the class. Why is it pricier in the states that have a relatively lower living expense than any other states? How can the local quarry site be more expensive than the boat diving?

That might be true. Most dive shop can’t make money from the class. But, it might not be a whole true to the dive shops that can run their business from the class.

Steep.
Your LDS doesn't sound great on the other hand, but each shop is different.

Sure, each shop is different. When I stop by your state, I can witness more competition than ours. The reason I mentioned about Mid-West is not to disclose my state in public that you already had a bad experience.

I simply don't have the extra cash to sponsor his trips. If I could afford it I would without a doubt buy all my gear there, but I can't talk my landlord down any better then I could talk the shop owner down

Of course, if I have enough money, I don’t mind to spend there. But, the problem is that I am always stingy with my money. I have never met anyone who said “I have enough money.” We are talking about money in this thread. If we don't care about money, who cares to buy an addtional set every dive shop!

 

[Scuba]

I don't think anyone disputes the right of a business to make money and the right of a salesperson to make a sales pitch in order to make a sale. What is objectionable is the tactics used to persuade, or coerce in some cases. Falsehood, deception, fear, etc., instead of learning and using a more positive and beneficial marketing and sales tactic. Friendship and friendliness can be other devious tactics of the unscrupolous, but it is all betrayed by their deeds. Not everyone is truly malicious, there are some dunces out there. Either way, buyer beware, or you'll pay the price.

It is about money - and not. Even if money was no object, I certainly would not patronize this type. I encourage others likewise. This is not about a business or person choosing their own legitimate business policies and code of conduct. This is about those who promote their interests, possibly at all costs, without regards for others.

Neil wrote:

I don't know about other shops, but I do some teaching for SC and have never seen that "buying commitment" anywhere

I very much doubt this is a corporate policy. It certainly was not a few years ago. Which goes to the heart of the matter in this thread. Who can you believe and trust in a shop? I've seen a couple of real gems at SC, who would be right at home in the hot air balloon dept., if they had one. On the other hand, I've also seen a couple very consciountious and knowledgeable ones.

Some people are difficult to gauge.. The example for this thread appears to be obvious soon after he opens his mouth. The only bright side to this matter. One need not be dive knowledgeable to root the most blatant ones out, but it does help.

 

[bp_968]

I just wanted to take a moment to say how happy I am with the shop I'm going too. Ya, its a bit more expensive then the internet shops (but seems to be cheaper then some local shops I called a few days ago) but man the service is excellent. The owner found this thread and was very polite and helpful. He seemed more concerned that he had upset me or offended me then anything, even though there have been plenty of comments going around in this thread that could/are offensive.

The instructor tonight really gave my wife some great 1-on-1 help and is even going to have her come back tommorow for a couple more hours of pool time so she can get more relaxed with the whole process. Whats really annoyed me is *my* case of foot-in-mouth disease. Here I go joining the tirade against LDS prices and never really compared apples to apples. I only compared against Scubatoys (because I've heard good things about them, and didn't compare against leisurepro (because I've heard bad things about them), thats a problem because scubatoys doesn't carry any of the stuff this LDS does. Well I did compare them (LDS-Vs-LP), and the average price difference is 20%. Right at what I said I would be willing to pay extra at a local LDS (DOH!)

Anyway, moral of the story is talk to the owners/instructors. No one is getting rich selling low volume sporting goods (especially inland dive shops), so they are most likely either A: Masochists (just try doing taxes for a small business someday!), or B: doing it for fun. Pissed/mad people are no fun. They probably want you happy so give them the chance to make you happy!

Ben "I need a 7mm wetsuit for 78deg water" Pottinger