Cave Diving Certification Question~~!!

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I was down in Florida doing the Cavern and Intro course last week. I generally dive with double tanks. All training was restricted to 1/6th of air supply. I was required to perform a valve drill on the doubles.

My TDI Intro C-card requires me to "reserve 2/3 of air supply to exit". Per my instructor TDI will allow me to dive thirds on the doubles. This differs from NSS-CDS and NACD which restict to 1/6th.

You are mistaken or your cave instructor is wrong. TDI doesn't have a doubles or single specific card, but the Intro level of their training only qualifies you for 1/6th penetration gas from a set of doubles(or 1/3rd of a single). It is exactly like NSSCDS and the NACD equivelants. Read your book, its all spelled out clearly there.

B. Limitations for Introductory Cave Diving
1. Limited penetration distance, one-third of single cylinder(or equivelant)

The "(or equivelant)" allows for doubles, but not increased penetration.

The last day of training was at Peacock. Once I was certified the instructor and I stayed on an extra day at Peackock and did a fun dive (main line to Olsen and back) and applied thirds to gas planning.

Your instructor is allowed to dive you up a level.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Maybe I am just being paranoid, but I just want to make sure everyone understands that this was intended to be taken sarcastically. It may not be so obvious to people who are not familiar with the area. Many of the most popular Florida caves are at very reasonable depths, which was what (I assume) this post was meant to convey.

Entirely correct, we should be allowed sarcasm tags. [suprbugman]I suggest these are appropriate sarcasm tags[/suprbugman]

 

[SandyRobinson]

If not mentioned already, visit the following websites:
National Association For Cave Diving
National Speleological Society Cave Diving Section
IUCRR

 

[Dive-aholic]

I was down in Florida doing the Cavern and Intro course last week. I generally dive with double tanks. All training was restricted to 1/6th of air supply. I was required to perform a valve drill on the doubles.

My TDI Intro C-card requires me to "reserve 2/3 of air supply to exit". Per my instructor TDI will allow me to dive thirds on the doubles. This differs from NSS-CDS and NACD which restict to 1/6th.

Your instructor violated standards. I am a TDI Cave instructor (as well as NACD, NSS-CDS, and IANTD) and the standards are the same for all the agencies - 1/3 of single cylinder and 1/6 or double cylinders.

The last day of training was at Peacock. Once I was certified the instructor and I stayed on an extra day at Peackock and did a fun dive (main line to Olsen and back) and applied thirds to gas planning.

This was a standards violation.

Your instructor is allowed to dive you up a level.

Nope. That's an NSS-CDS standard. No other agency spells that out in their standards. Unless the instructor is an NSS-CDS instructor, standards were violated.

 

[Doppler]

Your instructor violated standards. I am a TDI Cave instructor (as well as NACD, NSS-CDS, and IANTD) and the standards are the same for all the agencies - 1/3 of single cylinder and 1/6 or double cylinders.




This was a standards violation.




Nope. That's an NSS-CDS standard. No other agency spells that out in their standards. Unless the instructor is an NSS-CDS instructor, standards were violated.

What he said...



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[Dive Bug Bit Me]

Your instructor violated standards. I am a TDI Cave instructor (as well as NACD, NSS-CDS, and IANTD) and the standards are the same for all the agencies - 1/3 of single cylinder and 1/6 or double cylinder.

Thanks point taken. I just googled the standards and they are clear. 1/6th for doubles.

Not that it was relevant to the discussion I had with my instructor related to gas planning limits, but to answer your other question above he also trains for NSS-CDS.

 

[Doppler]

Thanks point taken. I just googled the standards and they are clear. 1/6th for doubles.

Not that it was relevant to the discussion I had with my instructor related to gas planning limits, but to answer your other question above he also trains for NSS-CDS.

I believe the point Rob and I were most concerned with is that YOU understand that diving outside the purview of your training (making jumps and exceeding gas rules) puts you at risk...


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[ucfdiver]

I believe the point Rob and I were most concerned with is that YOU understand that diving outside the purview of your training (making jumps and exceeding gas rules) puts you at risk...


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Are these not printed in the training manuals? I don't see how something this important could be "missed".

Hopefully the agency makes an effort to contact the instructor to let them know what the standards are.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I did my cave instruction through TDI/NACD, it was clearly printed in the "manual"(which was more of an outline) that I have and its what I quoted in my earlier post. I believe they've redone the manual, to make it more... manualish(rather than an outline that relied on other agencies materials workbooks). I can't possibly imagine that its not laid out clearly in the new manual.

I would have to believe that this is either a misunderstanding on what was taught by the instructor... or a misrepresentation by the instructor. I would hope the former...

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

I have openly stated that I had a misunderstanding of what the limits on diving were after completing the Intro course. My appetite for diving outside my level of training is nil. So I guess it is 1/6th of gas as a planning limit (added to the others - no jumps, gaps, T's, circuits, traverses, deco, etc).

The incident does, however, raise the question of how limits are communicated to the students. I came to the course knowing I needed training, but not knowing the intricacies of the certs. I was given a copy of "Diving in Overhead Environments: Your Complete Guide to Cavern and Cave Diving" published by TDI as a manual. This was augmented by discussions and class time with the instructor.

The manual is useful and explains a lot but to my mind suffers from two major draw backs;
- Nowhere does it set out the distinction between Cavern, Intro and Full Cave divers and the limitations placed on them. As I stated earlier, a quick google search sets out the limits, but why not just print them in the manual? (I could only find a page saying my instructor will tell me what my limitations are).
- Being a manual for all cave/ cavern training it does discuss procedures, etc that are clearly beyond my current training and skill levels. I probably should not be working though these as part of my Intro training. Maybe identify which course the chapters are relevant to, and let me focus on those that I really need to know well. Indicate that I don't need to spend two days working through "complex navigation".

Apart from the confusion above, I will state that I thought the course was good and taught me a lot. No question, it is necessary before venturing into caves.