Cave Diving Certification Question~~!!

[Doc Harry]

Hi Ronald

I am not a cave diving instructor, so I cannot answer your question definitively. A lot has changed in cave diving in 25 years, for the better. My cave diving course was extremely demanding, and I had many difficulties despite having mastered my buoyancy and all of the above techniques & gear. I can't imagine how anyone would be able to pass such a demanding course without already having mastered the basic skills. To arrive on site without any basic overhead skills would be lunacy. You can't expect someone to master all of these skills in a week.

You can do the first part of the course with a single tank, but given the depths in Florida you are looking at extremely brief penetrations.

 

[boulderjohn]

It is not a 1 or 2 day course. .

Cavern diving is a 2 day course. You could make arrangements ahead of time, read the materials, and be ready to go when you get there. I also suggest you use the web search engine of your choice to find videos of proper kicking and trim for cave diving and practice before you get there.

I recommend that you contact Capt Jim Wyatt or Rich Courtney both excellent cave instructors in that area (and there are others too).

Good choices, and the suggested location will serve as a good introduction to what it is like to dive in caves.

I think the most important thing you learn in a cavern diving course is a good taste of what it takes to dive caves safely and an understanding of why more training is necessary.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I did my NSS-CDS cavern and basic cave training at Ginnie Springs in 1988 when I was open-water trained for about 2.5 years. The gear I used (full 1/4-inch farmer John and long-sleeved shorty wetsuit, SP Stab Jacket BC, SP Jet Fins, and SP Mk 10/Balanced Adjustable reg and gauges) for these two courses was *basically* what I used for fresh water diving in Missouri and Arkansas, except modified in some simple, but important, ways, including the following: SP AIR II was replaced by a SP power inflator, standard-length regulator hose was replaced by a 5-foot regulator hose, an additional regulator (Mk 10/G250) was purchased, an additional dive knife (a small knife) was purchased, etc. These modifications were "suggested" by my instructor during long-distance telephone conversations.

When I arrived on-site at Ginnie Springs with my gear modified as above, my instructor showed me additional modifications I would need to make: remove snorkel, remove dive knife from leg and affix to SSJ, purchase steel/brass O-rings to suspend from my SSJ's waist strap, purchase cave and safety reels and line arrows, reverse and tape fin straps, configure main (handheld lantern grip-type) light and backup lights (Ikelike Mini-C's) properly, properly set up regulators on Y-valve on the single (rented) cylinder and properly route hoses (we were expressly forbidden to use double back cylinders for these courses and for some time after completing these courses), etc.

I think thats still pretty common for a basic, cavern course. However, atleast nowadays, when technical gear is readily available at dive shops and online alike, I think you are expected to step it up a bit for Intro-Cave with a more proper cave setup. This can include a single tank rig with Y/H valves, although I would think you'd know if you were interested in caves via the cavern class or not - therefore if at Intro level, you might as well just get a twin tank setup. I think this is mostly a product of your training in 1988, versus today when proper equipment is much easier to get ahold of... and also a product of your specific instructor.

It was *not* expected that I was to have mastered any kind of specialized kicking technique before I arrived on-site. This kind of thing was taught during the courses. (BTW, we were never taught, nor expected to learn the helicopter kick or the back kick!)

It was explained/emphasized at that time, that this level of training (cavern/basic cave) was merely to introduce interested/curious people to cave diving, to teach these people the fundamental skills they needed to *safely* dive caves under extremely limited conditions (high-outflow caves having permanent lines installed, specified depth+distance limit, no decompression, no restrictions whatsoever, no circuits, no jumps, no exploration, no "goal-setting", Florida ground water temps only, etc.). Once divers had completed this training, it was recommended that they acquire a lot of experience diving caves with respect to these conditions. If these divers subsequently confirmed their interest in cave diving, they were to return for more advanced formal cave diving training.


Okay. Do training agencies no longer use this approach for cave diving training? (Your comments above suggest to me something quite different.) IMHO, this is the type of training the OP and his wife "need" as they investigate their budding interest in diving underwater caves. The salient features of this approach to training are (1) there is no huge investment in specialized equipment early on, (2) divers are taught necessary skills and the conditions under which they can *safely* dive caves using the skills they were taught, (3) divers are *not* expected to know any specialized skills before they arrive on-site for their cavern/basic cave course.

There's alot of basic skills that can be learned before the class to make the class run a bit smoother, although Cavern and Intro are there to help you learn/fine tune those basic skills. Cavern especially... I'd hope you've gotten your non-silting kick down by Intro if your instructor passed you... and I would expect to have checked your helicopter and backkicks as well... Certain skills can be learned wrong, and are harder to unlearn than to learn initially, so its not the case for all skills.

1. Still true for cavern... At Intro Cave standards, you are in a cave, and should have proper gear, even if you are staying mainline(Intro standards says nothing about staying in high flow caves and you can get far in shallow low flow caves like Peacock).

2. Still true.

3. Addressed already, but there are certain skills that can be learned ahead of time(bouyancy being the biggest) that will greatly improve classes.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

You can do the first part of the course with a single tank, but given the depths in Florida you are looking at extremely brief penetrations.

Yes, because everything in Florida is 300' deep

 

[ianr33]

You can do the first part of the course with a single tank, but given the depths in Florida you are looking at extremely brief penetrations.

For Cavern or Intro Cave the limits on penetration are 1/3rd single tank or 1/6 double tanks. So you only have the same amount of gas available either way. Doubles will not "legally" give you more penetration.

 

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

For Cavern or Intro Cave the limits on penetration are 1/3rd single tank or 1/6 double tanks. So you only have the same amount of gas available either way. Doubles will not "legally" give you more penetration.

I was down in Florida doing the Cavern and Intro course last week. I generally dive with double tanks. All training was restricted to 1/6th of air supply. I was required to perform a valve drill on the doubles.

My TDI Intro C-card requires me to "reserve 2/3 of air supply to exit". Per my instructor TDI will allow me to dive thirds on the doubles. This differs from NSS-CDS and NACD which restict to 1/6th.

The last day of training was at Peacock. Once I was certified the instructor and I stayed on an extra day at Peackock and did a fun dive (main line to Olsen and back) and applied thirds to gas planning.

For the OP a 2 day cavern course is probably what you need (for the experience of an overhead environment). This is essentially a recreational course so equipment requirements are not as onerous. You will enjoy the course a lot more if you have very good buoyancy and trim. If the cave bug bites you will need more training and equipment.

 

[a22shady]

If your looking to do something as try out cavern diving you can go to ginnie springs it's a cavern that OW cert people can go into. It will give you the feel and Idea to see if its something you like.

 

[craborn]

I really should have worded my post better. I truly understand and agree with all of the advice. I should not post that late
at night! haha She has a dream of doing a cave dive and does not understand what all is required. (Sometimes we don't
listen to our spouse so I posted for your advice) haha I had her read all of your
post and they helped a lot! I think we have found a place called Blue Grotto ( spelling may not be right) where she can do a controlled Cavern dive. Then we are going to do a couple wreck and reef dives somewhere around the palm beach area. I really appreciate all of the comments and advice.
It is crazy that I have done hundreds and hundreds of dives but 99% are in fresh water and black water. I have only done a 6 in the ocean. My wife is finally out of college so maybe we can catch up now! Thanks Again!!

 

[boulderjohn]

Yes, because everything in Florida is 300' deep

Maybe I am just being paranoid, but I just want to make sure everyone understands that this was intended to be taken sarcastically. It may not be so obvious to people who are not familiar with the area. Many of the most popular Florida caves are at very reasonable depths, which was what (I assume) this post was meant to convey.

 

[Jaydubya]

Lots of good info above.

I recommend signing up for a Cavern course. You will learn a lot that will be helpful in your open water diving and you will also get to experience the caves. For the agencies I have dealt with, you can take a Cavern course in recreational gear with some minor mods but for Intro you will need a dual outlet air supply with 2 regulators, i.e. single with H-valve, doubles, or side mount, and a long hose. Beyond Intro, a single tank system is no longer allowed.

My main caveat is that if you do decide to take a cavern course you are in serious danger of getting the cave bug.