Continuing Education

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Continuing education, I think, gets marketed too heavily in today's scuba training.

I agree, however in the PNW what choice do they have? Its not like students are pooring thru the doors. Most instructors out there are not even close to full time. I did a study awhile back while I was in that state. I came up with an average of 53 students per month taking an O/W class. The median cost was 185.00 for the course thats 9805.00 per month of revenue for 20+ "truly active" instructors... Thats assuming the shops dont take any of that money which most do for books etc... So its even less then that. And they wonder why there are bad instructors,Why instructors cut corners, Shorten pool and ocean training etc... I dont condone this but you and I can both agree that it does happen. The ones who are truly loosing are the students. The price wars between the shops like lighthouse and underwater sports have driven the price so far down that its has become truly a situation of "you get what you pay for..."

You're new here ... stick around and read the tales ...

As I have already previously stated with in this thread, I have been a member since 2005. I am locked out of my other account deepseaconvict, no password old email gone. Being new is irrelevant, I have read alot of these threads and you would not know to what end...

Jim and I are instructors. Do you REALLY believe that we don't see value in classes?

No I do not believe this..

So I ask you ... which one of us is doing a better job of promoting the industry?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I would be hard to measure who is doing a better job, each to his own method I suppose. Any opinion from me would be biased and defeat the purpose of the question.

I am not concerned with who is doing a better job, I am concerned with continuing education. That is all.
 
So let me ask. Besides taking yet another course, what other things are divers out there doing to become better and more knowledgeable? What projects are being worked on, communities being strengthened, information being shared, divers being encouraged etc...

Thx Dale for your input & great question!
 
Brendon, I'm truly sorry that your thread took the turn it did, because I think your original intent was what you SAID -- to ask divers what they were going to do this year to improve their skills and capacity, and that is a laudable thing.

And I will answer it for myself -- some time this year, I'm almost certainly going to take a sidemount class, once I figure out which sidemount setup I'm going to use. I am quite certain that I could figure out how to use the equipment by myself, and I have access to some mentoring, but taking a class will make sure I learn the things I might not think of, and will give me the advantage of a knowledgeable person masterminding the gear adjustments, which are quite idiosyncratic with sidemount diving.

I also intend to get out within the next few weeks and do a few training dives, and practice my skills in midwater, as that is something I don't do often in my normal diving pattern. A couple of days of air-sharing and gas switching in the water column will do me a great deal of good!

And I have a cave diving trip in November, and I am seriously considering hiring an instructor for a day to do a skills/drills review, to make sure my emergency procedures stay current, and that I have developed no bad habits.

Continuing education is a GOOD thing, no matter how far you have gotten in your diving.
 
I agree, however in the PNW what choice do they have? Its not like students are pooring thru the doors. Most instructors out there are not even close to full time. I did a study awhile back while I was in that state. I came up with an average of 53 students per month taking an O/W class. The median cost was 185.00 for the course thats 9805.00 per month of revenue for 20+ "truly active" instructors... Thats assuming the shops dont take any of that money which most do for books etc... So its even less then that. And they wonder why there are bad instructors,Why instructors cut corners, Shorten pool and ocean training etc... I dont condone this but you and I can both agree that it does happen. The ones who are truly loosing are the students. The price wars between the shops like lighthouse and underwater sports have driven the price so far down that its has become truly a situation of "you get what you pay for..."

... and you just summed up beautifully what I see as the problem ... scuba instruction has become more about attracting new business than about diver education and safety. It's a numbers game ... and the students are the numbers.

And they have a choice ... they can choose to place a reasonable value on dive training and offer quality in return for a higher price. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with an instructor being paid a fair wage for their efforts ... I strongly believe in it and encourage it.

But the answer isn't to market classes more aggressively by reducing prices ... it's to cut the dead wood out of the forest of available instructors ... reduce the training options to those who are able and willing to offer the most value for the dollar ... and focus on the original intent of those classes, which is diver education.

I don't wonder why there are bad instructors out there ... I KNOW why there are bad instructors. It's because divers are encouraged to keep signing up for classes, and getting pushed into becoming DM's and instructors before they, themselves, have truly learned how to dive. I know far too many instructors who can cite the standards and course curriculum by heart ... but who haven't much of a clue what it really means, or how to apply it outside of a classroom.

Right now, for far too many, dive instruction is a matter of only providing that which is minimally required ... because offering quality is expensive, and as you noted those price wars are making classes cheaper and cheaper. If the instructors don't place value on their time, how are they expecting the students to?

Yes ... you are correct ... the ultimate losers in all of this are the students. But hawking more classes isn't going to solve the problem ... it just perpetuates the marketing game in which "he who can teach the most classes wins" ... the ultimate loser will still be the students ... because far too many of them will come out of that class with a c-card, and very little confidence in their ability to perform the skills that class was intended to teach them.

The ONLY way to turn this into a winner is to offer more value for the class you teach. Because that's how you will ultimately keep people diving. And people who are actively diving are far more likely to take another class than those who dive rarely, or who give it up altogether.

The reality of the industry today is that three out of every four people who learn how to dive will give it up within a year ... and the prevalent business model is to capture that market by selling as many con-ed classes and as much equipment as possible before they have a chance to move on to some other recreational activity. That's bass-ackwards ... what we SHOULD be doing is providing adequate quality to our customers to keep them involved, which will keep them coming back for years to come.

Dive shops tend to treat active, experienced divers as less important than new divers on the assumption that once they've purchased their gear, they won't bring much money into the shop. I think that's an upside-down business model. Most active divers I know continually purchase new equipment, upgrade old equipment, sign up for additional training, spend money on dive charters and trips, and regularly spend time in the dive shop of their choice.

The dive industry as a whole needs to quit playing the numbers game and start concentrating on the quality game ... because therein lies their best chance for survival. It's not more aggressive marketing that will keep them in business ... it's focusing on offering quality in return for the customer's money. An instructor who allows a student to walk out of a class feeling like they didn't get their money's worth has failed ... regardless of how many students they run through their classes ... because that student will either go on to find a different instructor for their next class, or they will drop out of diving altogether.

We need to stop focusing on short-term profitability and start focusing on long-term viability ... and that means increasing the retention rate of our divers. You can't do that by pushing people from class to class to class ... you HAVE to, at some point, teach these people how to relax and have some fun.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Well first and foremost I wish to finish my Full Cave and clean up my BM skills.
I want to work with my reel skills and navigation Wreck diving this season in the Great Lakes.
I am attempting to master BM as much as possible with details rigging for stage / decompression, etc.
As some of you know I spent the majority of the season last year working with SM and cave diving in SM it was fantastic but this season I have become determined to finish up with BM to be the rounded diver.
SM or BM are tools to perform dives properly and safely and I wish to master both techniques.

Those are my personal goals including gaining decompression experience in preparation for my upcoming Trimix.
This seasons training schedule does not really kick off till July so I have some latitude that will be spent diving both local and Great Lakes.

As always I read everything Scuba books, magazines, SB, and I follow several blogs and or web sites.
I am also on the Cave Divers Forum, "CDF" which has been a great source of information.
I am not sure if I have ever stopped learning I did suffer a time prediving that was waisted with depression and alcohol but I have committed leaving that in the past!
I love to learn and dream new goals to achieve.
Life is to short to not push forward into new territory!

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!
 
I wrote an article for our quarterly newsletter titled " Are you making a difference?" All SEI leadership receives this. The intent of it was to challenge our leadership not to increase numbers but increase the value of what they teach and to make a difference with non divers and divers to be. Not by turning out large numbers but setting examples that are clearly more than the minimums.

This is why I write courses, essays, and articles as well as teach a quality class. What will I do this year? Well due to some medical issues with the owner my pool that I use for OW classes is kind of up in the air. So I am seriously leaning towards teaching only advanced and specialties this year and teaching them in such a way that they do stand out. That they push divers to expand their knowledge and skills.

Last night I gave a presentation to 21 girl scouts on snorkeling and skin diving. I began it with a short portion on people like Sylvia Earle, Eugenie Clark, Jill Heinerth, Evie Dudas, and Tanya Streeter. All members of the Women Divers Hall of Fame. Not one of those 21 young ladies had heard of any of them. Or Zale Perry, Valerie Van Heest, or my friend Dana Kerjes who was a director of astronaut scuba training for NASA at Huntsville. Yet they had heard of Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, and Lindsey Lohan. A sad commentary on society.

But they know who those women are now. And tonite they are going to get the chance to start like many of them did. I will have all of them in the pool for a snorkeling and skin diving program I'm developing for the Girl Scouts in Western PA. This is the first one. By the end of the night they had made plans and booked a pool for more programs up through spring of 2012. And more are coming this summer at some of their camps that have pools or lakes suitable for swimming.

I am tying all these together with conservation issues and career opportunities for women in diving related fields. They have to start somewhere and a solid foundation in skin diving and snorkeling is a great place to effect the most kids with out them or their parents having to spend a fortune on scuba gear. They also approached me about putting together some parent/child programs and asked me if I was willing to travel to do these.

When I was first approached about developing this program we had no idea if it would even fly. There are 21 tonite. The most I'm comfortable with given time and pool constraints. There are 17 more on a waiting list. That's why we need to add sessions over then summer and they were ok with booking pool time a year in advance.

I may not get as many OW certs this year if any. I know I'll have more than enough AOW and Specialties to cover the minimum I need to stay current. But from a conservative estimate right now according to them I could be introducing more than 100 kids (they think closer to 200 based on interest now) to the underwater environment. Out of those I;d say more than a few will sign on for scuba training next year. Quality, comprehensive training is what they will be looking for based on the info I'm giving them, and they and their parents will settle for nothing less.

In addition I'm going to have a multitude of opportunities to develop new contacts with pool operators and to build my business as an instructor and with equipment sales. All of that will be put towards turning out the most skilled, competent, and safe divers I can.

Oh yeah, I started on the second book as well. It may be a little slower with all the potential business I'm looking at as well as holding a full time real job, but it will get done. And hopefully when OW divers ARE READY to take more classes they will be able to use it to find the one that best suits them and gives them the best value for their money.
 
Those are wonderful plans, Cam and Jim!

I wonder if we should re-start this thread with a slightly reworded opening post, to see if we can get the responses I think Brendon was looking for in the beginning -- I think a lot of people will never get this far, because of the detour it took in the beginning. And it's a great question.
 
But conitinuing education in some form or another is key to diver safety.

Why?

The biggest dive training agency in the world uses the term "mastery" in describing the competence level of entry-level students demonstrating skills. Why must someone who has mastered safety-critical dive skills continue taking classes? Perhaps because the level of OW on average isn't really mastery, it's borderline sufficient. Adding more classes is a kludge. Fix the problem at the root.

Besides, if the initial training isn't good enough to produce a safe diver, what guarantees are there that further training will produce a safe diver? Is it not reasonable to [-]conclude[/-] assume that follow-on classes will be as insufficient as the initial one?



As to the re-worded thread: unless I move to a locale where caves are a viable option, I think I'm done with classes. There are a ton of dives within my training and comfort range (above 200 feet [which is deeper than my formal training], less than 1 hr deco, no more than 2 bottles). There are a number of local dives rather deeper (250-350) that interest me greatly, but not enough to step up to the hypoxic plate, nor the CCR plate. I plan to dive as much as I can within my personal limits. Maybe forgo 10 tech charters and instead spend that money to dive somewhere different (belize? honduras?) and experience a new environment.
 
Jim, that's a great story about you and the GSA's. That's what I call being a good diver.
I also like Marcs comments about having plenty of dives within his reach and taking some time to develop himself within them. What I see often on the board is a "been there, done that" water cooler mentality where progress in diving is measured by which course you're currently taking and whether you've made the switch to BP/W, canlight and longhose.

"Oh, I've done 30 rec dives, gained my OW, AOW, Rescue and MD, now I'm ready for tech. Oh, I've got my tech cert's, love the trimix, dove in Truk, now I'm looking at caves. Did my cave training in Fl. cruised the Cenotes, want to go deep so now I'm ready for RB's. It's been two years, I've done it all, this is boring, selling my gear and taking up bungie jumping."

There is so much to do and learn all around us but it seems that some divers lack the imagination to see it and instead rely on the dive industry to tell them how they should progress. And of course, the answer will always be: Take another course.
 
You have made it this far. Anyone planning on becoming a better and more knowledgeable diver this year? I see alot of questions on the board... What are you going to do this year to become a better diver?

I figure I will endeavor to help get this thread back on topic....

What am I going to do to become a better diver this year:

1. Master my drysuit.
2. Get used to diving in the cold and murk of the UK instead of the warmth and clarity of the Caribbean.
3. Slow down, relax, and enjoy my dives instead of zipping around.
4. Take fundies.
5. Dive as much as I can. Challenge myself. And stay safe.
 
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