Disappointed / Frustrated with my first OW class

[Colliam7]

Is the ratio counted as instructors to students? Because there was a DM assistant there, so it was 10:2 (1 instructor, 1 DM). . . . Someone else mentioned that it really should be 2 instructors for a group of 10, plus DM assistants.

The ratio is students:dive professionals. Therefore, in the case of your class, it was 10:2. As to how many instructors should be present for a Confined Water session, that is a matter of judgement. Frankly, I am not good enough to do a thorough and competent job with 10 students, even with a DM, so I would (and have in the past) ask a second instructor (or a very good AI) to join me and the assigned DM, particularly on the first evening. But, then, I 'grew up' in a shop where we worked well as a team, and to ask a colleague to jump in the pool to help out like that was not a problem - others were happy to help.

I also know it was an off night for the shop so I don't want to say anything bad about them. If it continues, that's one thing. Not excusing it, just hoping to see a better next few weeks and also a recognition that I'm approaching this whole sport from a totally different angle and mindset than 90% of their clientele. I

Very reasonable approach.

 

[Stoo]

Having been an active Instructor (and I think a pretty good one given positive reviews, ease in filling courses, student's staying in the sport) for about 25 years, a couple of things come to mind after readying the original post:

1) Some Instructors really aren't very good. Just like some plumbers aren't very good and some lawyers aren't as good as others.
2) Most students don't arrive at the class as well "prepared" as you were, so the Instructor must teach to the lowest common denominator.
3) You (i.e. the OP) are obviously full of confidence. While this is great in many situations, it might get you killed with diving.
4) You (i.e. the OP) should take in the second class, but possibly raise your concerns with the shop owner before you do. It may be that you are correct, there was a certain amount of scrambling due to the usual Instructor being absent.
5) Perhaps consider a private course that can be tailored to your needs.

I mention that last item, because your post reminds me of some of the concerns raised by a young friend who took up diving a few years ago. Between work and her other hobbies, timing was a real concern with a regular course. As well, she was very athletic, and extremely comfortable in the water (former lifeguard, life-long snorkeller) and she had also absorbed a lot of information about diving just from hanging out with Mrs. Stoo and I, and our circle of friends who are all hardcore divers.

I had retired from teaching at that point, so we connected her with a friend who was able to put a course together to suit my friend's schedule. Once she had completed that, and done her checkouts, I took her under my wing and mentored her. She has become an excellent diver as a result of this approach, although she is somewhat lacking in c-cards~ ;-)

What won't help your (the OP's) situation is to express frustration here, but not talk to the shop. Businesses want Happy Customers so it's likely that they will do what they can to address your concerns.

 

[urbaneve71]

i understand that -- im not a newbie here. but it was the insturctors duty to help out and he didnt. period im not over complicatiing anyting.

 

[Neilwood]

Mask, you put it on your face. Snorkel, you breath air through it while on the surface. Fins, you put them on your feet. Don't over complicate this for the sake of argument. The OP did state that they specifically told them not to buy a mask so they could try different masks. I would say he tried one that did not fit so well, try another. That was the point, I think.

I can see the reasoning the shop gave but I think the students might have been better served if they were told how to properly try a mask on i.e. put the mask to the face without straps in place and suck a little air out gently with the nose. The mask should stay in place with virtually no effort as it is getting a good seal. Doing it the right way would only have taken at most 5 minutes as it could have been shown to the entire class at once.

To get them to just dig through a bundle of masks without any idea of what makes a mask a good one or bad (most non divers in that situation will simply snug the band tighter and tighter while wondering why it still doesn't seal).

 

[Cali_diver]

Stoo makes some great points and I think the OP needs to heed some of these subtle warnings. You have mentioned having problems with your mask but when people offer advice you come back and say you had it handled. Perhaps the Instructor was made to feel that you had it handled. So think of how you present yourself. If you come in with confidence and preparedness an instructor may miss that you look frustrated or nervous, especially in a class of 10.

The one thing I have learned about diving is you need to go your pace and dive only when you are comfortable. You are often put in groups on dive trips and you will think that you are expected to keep up the pace (I especially see this when suiting up and prepping gear on first dives). Newer divers do this slower and they should. For experienced divers it is often almost like muscle memory. We can put our gear together with our eyes closed. You need to take your time, learn your skills and speak up for yourself when you feel the need. Now and forever more. No matter how stupid you might think you look or sound. This could save your life. If you are on a dive boat and having an issue but the DM is rushing you to get in the water are you going to just shut up and jump in?

Good luck and I hope your next class goes better!

 

[oly5050user]

i realize its unfair to other students. but my point that im a trying to make since she was an instructor so many years ago. how long does it take to help someone with a mask. i mean really.

my other point -- having proper mask adjustment is essential to diving.

Not an instructor so many years ago. Still current and teaching. I had a weekend group last week, 8 students and have a private for 2 currently( these 2 need a lot of help) and have a refresher later this afternoon. Have another group weekend scheduled for July 8 with 8 in the class. Very active and busy here.
Current rating is IDC staff. No real interest to become a course director. Costs too much and would take a long time to get a. ROI ( Return On Investment).
To answer your question on "how long it takes to help someone with a mask",
Over 90% of my students get it on first attempt after my explanation on how to do it and value of doing so, followed by a demonstration. Very unusual for any in a group to not get it almost immediately. Oh and I am a he, not a she.

 

[tursiops]

so is what you are saying is that a NEW diver should know the in and outs of how to use a mask, snorkel and fins let alone the equipment -- im just asking

I don't remember saying that.

 

[urbaneve71]

@oly5050user i meant that you became an instructor many years ago. that didnt imply that you weren't still one now.

begging your pardon on the she part. no offense there.

I don't remember saying that.

i never said you siad that -- i was asking a question -- but thanks for answering it?
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[filmguy123]

UPDATE

Talked to the diveshop and very politely shared my concerns.

From here on out there will be TWO instructors, plus at least 2 Divemasters.

They said I can come in early before class or midweek to ask questions or work out of pool with any gear I want to check out in more depth.

And if after the second course, if not satisfied, can roll me into a private lesson for more personal attention and only pay the difference to upgrade to private.

 

[filmguy123]

he implicit contract is based on the needs (and also expectations) of the student not being too different from those for whom the class is intended. Private classes are designed to meet the needs of the needy students. The OP is a needy student, because of his over-preparation and high expectations. If the OP had gone into McDonalds and ordered a rare burger made with prime beef, and a whole-wheat bun, he'd have been told to go somewhere else for that meal. If he'd just ordered a burger, and expected prime beef, cooked less well, on a whole wheat bun, and them complained, he'd be laughed out of court. He did a lot of homework in advance of the class -- some might say too much -- but did not do any homework on the class itself. Big mistake.

I can own this one! Won't even dispute it.

I will say, to be fair though, this was unintentional and that I signed up for the class on the recommendation of some friends without knowing much about scuba. In the time that ensued, I got pretty excited and started reading and talking with people a ton. It would be like going to McDonalds on a recommendation, and during the month long wait for the burger, meeting a group of foodies and reading 4 books about burgers. So, true point, just not intentional on my end as I had already paid a non refundable down-payment. Which was the actual action that propelled me into excitement... sort of a catch-22 on that there! But Oh well! Didn't see that one coming. (Side note: I am *TOTALLY* the guy that would order a prime beef 1/2lbs medium rare cooked burger on specialty bread. And I hate McDonalds But then again, I live in Portland, so that's pretty par for the course ).