Dive Dangers; The Differentiation between "SOLO" and "BUDDY"

[Akimbo]

…It's late here, so I may be a little dense - but what's the difference in practice?

A BUD/S trainee doesn't get in the water without his swim-mate, even for punishments. At least within the training environment, it is a safety measure. Operationally, that same practice becomes more mission orientated - but nonetheless, they look after eachother lest bad things happen....

The main difference is the willing sense of obligation to teammates with little expectation of help in return. That breeds self-reliant characteristics that are well suited to solo diving and being a great buddy. Almost the opposite mentality exists in many newly trained recreational divers — there is an implied expectation that their buddy will be their savior with little conditioning to consider their ability to reciprocate.

…It's a fair point... and I'd even say that it was substantiated by the number of 'double fatality' scuba incidents recorded. That said, it wasn't having a buddy the killed anyone... it was having a lack of buddy/dive skills...

I agree that being killed by a buddy is an overstatement. It is far less likely that it will happen if the rescuer is competent even when their buddy is not — the basis of arguments where solo can be safer. My intent was divers should understand that some risks increase while others decrease — solo and in a buddy team.

 

[Akimbo]

No. I am correct. Perhaps you are confused between an alternate air source ascent versus a buddy breathing ascent.

In the PADI OW training, the order of priority when low on/out of air is:

1. normal ascent
2. alternate air source ascent
3. controlled emergency swimming ascent (CESA)
4. buddy breathing ascent (buddy with no alternate)
5. buoyant emergency ascent.

Can you provide the publication title, date, and page for that? There seems to be a lot people who contend that 4 & 5 are not acceptable. I have zero PADI experience but I would have thought that breathing off a buddy’s octo would be before or after #2. No argument, I’d just like to quote the facts in other conversations.

 

[Darnold9999]

Can you provide the publication title, date, and page for that? There seems to be a lot people who contend that 4 & 5 are not acceptable. I have zero PADI experience but I would have thought that breathing off a buddy’s octo would be before or after #2. No argument, I’d just like to quote the facts in other conversations.

As I read this #2 includes a buddy's octo as an alternate air source

 

[DevonDiver]

No. I am correct. Perhaps you are confused between an alternate air source ascent versus a buddy breathing ascent.

I'm not confused about anything. Teaching this has been my bread-and-butter for the last decade. As I said, you have incorrectly interpreted/recalled how the process of OOA emergencies should be managed.

In the PADI OW training, the order of priority when low on/out of air is:

Firstly, we are talking about process... that is different to a simple list in priority. Even looking at it incredibly simplistically, which is what you've done, it still doesn't support your wild claim...

1. normal ascent
When the diver is low-on-air, his first option is to complete a normal ascent. Signal buddy, get together and abort the dive.

2. alternate air source ascent
If the diver is out-of-air, his first option is to locate his buddy's AAS and conduct an air-sharing ascent.

3. controlled emergency swimming ascent (CESA)
If the diver is out-of-air, and his buddy is not available (for whatever reason), his next option is complete a CESA.

4. buddy breathing ascent (buddy with no alternate)
This is now removed from the teaching. It was previously listed at #4 because it has no logical place in the order... but it had remained as an optional skill that some instructors might choose to teach. However, PADI divers are taught to configure an AAS in their kit for every dive. If buddy is present, then option #2 is used. If buddy is not present, then option #3 is used.

5. buoyant emergency ascent.
If, when conducting a CESA, the diver has concern that they might not reach the surface without losing consciousness, they should drop their weights. Ensuing positive buoyancy negates the risk of sinking back down and assumes the potential risk of an ascent rate violation. This is the 'last ditch' option that recognises a slightly increased risk of DCS (from excessive ascent speed) in return for protection from drowning.

In a nutshell:

If you have air - ascend.
If your buddy has air - ascend with them.
If you have no buddy - ascend alone at a controlled speed.
If you doubt success - drop your weights.

At no point does PADI suggest abandoning your buddy. As I said, if this is what you believe PADI mean - you have interpreted the process wrong.

For your reference, here is what PADI now teach as standard, the changes/clarification of which emphasis the interpretation that instructors were previously taught to make when teaching this component:

Low-on-air/out-of-air emergency options and when you would use them:
Normal ascent - When low on air, not out of air
Alternate air source ascent - When buddy is near
Controlled emergency swimming ascent - When buddy is too far away
Buoyant emergency ascent - When buddy is far away and you’re deeper than 9 metres/30 feet

 

[NAM001]

The military is a bad example for this. The buddy system is not in place for those divers. It serves a more global purpose. It is designed to create a mindset that the groupe is the center of the unverse and not the individual. That process is what is used to promote concepts like the sum is greater than its parts, weak link in the chain theory, if one fails we all fail, the groupe is the lifving entity and and the person is but a part of that entity solely dependant on the rest and is non effective/functional alone, ect, with out that being a core belief you will not get soldiers to act as a unit in stressful sitiations. Its the anti bambo training. Those units can not afford to have people acting in thier own intrest. It does not support teh mission. It does not suport a mission reconstruction.

Using the military for an example is like using a swat team tactics to explain how a meter reader should perform.



QUOTE=DevonDiver;6141448]I believe that the SEALs emphasize the use and importance of 'swim/dive buddies' from the very first day of pre-BUD/s. "Grab a swim-buddy and hit the water!". Obviously, their modus operandi develops self-reliance to the extreme, but they still maintain swimming pairs as a base foundation for safety and effectiveness.[/QUOTE]

 

[NAM001]

Originally Posted by JaydubyaSo why does PADI tell its students to abandon the buddy system and do a CESA (self-rescue, i.e. solo diving) in preference to a buddy breathing ascent? Is this also an exception?

Though i am not familiar with the padi curriculum, I would say of course they say abandon your buddy. This is a basic ow course. Above all else self preservation is paramount. Dont drown becaue you can not get you buddies attention, go to the surface. when your buddy cant find you , he should start a lost buddy proceedure and find you on the surface. If the buddy system had worked then the buddy would have not got distracted and made themself non aware of your condition.

On the other hand when the buddy drigts off distracted, he is no longer a buddy and you are alone, solo by circumstance. You cant abandon what you do not have. You leave them and let survival instinct take over.

Speeking very general the buddy system takes priority over all else. when it is broke by one member it is broke for all members.

You would have to experience doing buddy breathing to figure out just how dangerous it is to do it. Those with time tested self diciplines can do it. bow's and new aow's do not have that diicpline masteredin other than a CONTROLED wnvironment. panic sets in very quickly for one diver let alone 2 divers when you have a part time air supply. No one finds them out of air at the point of completion of inhale. it is found at beginningof inhale. This is the only time i would say that spare air is usefull. to give you air till you can get your buddies octo or emergency accent.

 

[drbill]

My very first time on SCUBA 50 years ago this winter was solo (we only had one set of gear among my group) and about 95% of my diving since then has been as well.

IMHO the dangers of diving are NOT constant. So much depends on your buddy if you are diving with one. There is double the risk of an equipment-related incident when buddied up. There is perhaps half the risk if a dangerous species of shark closes in. There is a much greater possibility of a rescue from OOA or reg failure situations on the part of one buddy if the other has air left and an octo (or knows the "ancient art" of buddy breathing). However, I've seen a number of buddies fail to respond to such situations when buddied with other divers, and some bolt or keep too great a distance to respond in time.

I generally prefer solo diving due to the fact I'm working underwater and most buddies usually impact my filming negatively. I make sure I have plenty of redundancy in the event of a problem. Should I suffer a stroke or heart attack underwater, there is a good chance a buddy would not get me to emergency services in time to do much good anyway.

My experience indicates I am 20 times more likely to have an incident diving with a buddy than while diving solo. With that said, your mileage will undoubtedly vary.

 

[DevonDiver]

Perhaps it's important to recognise the difference between 'risk of an incident happening' (i.e. double chance of equipment failure) and risk of death because of that failure. Yes, a buddied diver has twice the risk of encountering an equipment failure - but the actual safety risk to that individual is less because there are contingency alternatives available with a buddy which safeguard them. A solo diver has half the risk of encountering an incident, but arguably much more safety risk should that incident occur.

for example:

x = chance of incident occurrence.
y = chance of resolving incident
z = chance of avoiding harm to the diver.

Buddy Team - 2x X 4y = 8z
Solo Diver - 1x X 2y = 3z

 

[jester1226]

See above post. Forgot to add the quoted area..

 

[jester1226]

No. I am correct. Perhaps you are confused between an alternate air source ascent versus a buddy breathing ascent.

In the PADI OW training, the order of priority when low on/out of air is:

1. normal ascent
2. alternate air source ascent
3. controlled emergency swimming ascent (CESA)
4. buddy breathing ascent (buddy with no alternate)
5. buoyant emergency ascent.

If I remember correctly, PADI no longer requires #4 Buddy Breathing Ascent (no alternate)
A newer manual might be helpful'