Divemaster touching me

[austriandiveress]

I know. That's the worst part

Hmmm, a question.... why is it not ok for some women here to feel , as I do, that this situation as explained to us simply doesnt sound like harassment or worse? (Of course we were not there, so only the OP knows for sure)
Must all the women here support an opinion that isnt ours, just because the OP is a woman? I am all for solidarity, and I think that some posters (male and female) might have been more sensitive, but I think that the point of a forum is to be able to express one's opinion, without having to check the gender of the OP first...isnt it?

 

[sibermike7]

Hmmm, a question.... why is it not ok for some women here to feel , as I do, that this situation as explained to us simply doesnt sound like harassment or worse? (Of course we were not there, so only the OP knows for sure)

It IS O.K. to express your opinion and YOU DO NOT have to support an opinion contrary to your own. Go Girl!

I think that the point of a forum is to be able to express one's opinion, without having to check the gender of the OP first...isnt it?

Here I disagree. As a man, I would NEVER say to a woman the things the women have said, e.g., "Pull up your big girl ..." I guess I am too much of an old-fashioned gentleman and I would just let it go. Do those things need to be said sometimes? ABSOLUTELY! But gender does (often) determine who is best suited to say what needs to be said.

I mean, what do I know about being "hit on" by DMs? Yes, I know, some are female, but man, I even get "ugly man" discounts at department stores! When we are seen together, my wife will have people come up to her, pat her hand, and say, "You poor dear."

 

[bamamedic]

Most of those comments (the big girl ...) were made by women!!!

Yup...strong, independent women, who are used to living and working in a male dominated profession, and have learned that you can't scream "lawsuit" every time a guy gets a little forward with ya.

When I mentioned "put on my big girl panties and deal with it", I was actually referring to myself (selective quoting is evil!). I was sharing a situation from my workplace and said that I could either have been a victim or I could have put my big girl panties on and deal with it myself, which is what I did. I told the perpetrator that he was out of line, and guess what? It worked!

We all have our own ways of dealing with such a situation...

I just get a kick out of the assumption that because I'm a woman, I'm supposed to be a certain way in these situations and say certain things.
My opinion definitely doesn't seem to be shared by the majority of the female population, but that's OK. It's a big, wide world out there....more than enough room for all of our opinions.

 

[David_57]

Being the devils advocate

Heres a strange possibility maybe the DM due to the fact English is not his mother language confused buddy and friend so when he said Girl Friend meant Girl Buddy in lieu of Dive Buddy, trying to be politically correct in his mind. He was being overly attentive as he was worried due to her aforementioned conversation prior to the dive, shame we can't hear his side of the story.

Tips are based on interaction / performance with the clients, due to this I would certainly not complain and jeopardize his job, as there could be a perception issue here.

 

[sibermike7]

When I mentioned "put on my big girl panties and deal with it", I was actually referring to myself (selective quoting is evil!).

Now if you're are going to quote someone and call them evil, at least do it to the person who selectively quoted. I simply repeated and replied to the one who were being critical and complaining about the comments. I was pointing out that, "Hey, it wasn't sexist men saying that, it was women." I.e., "maybe you should listen!!"

 

[bamamedic]

Now if you're are going to quote someone and call them evil, at least do it to the person who selectively quoted. I simply repeated and replied to the one who were being critical and complaining about the comments. I was pointing out that, "Hey, it wasn't sexist men saying that, it was women." I.e., "maybe you should listen!!"

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding...I wasn't calling you evil, I was saying that the whole "selective quoting" thing is evil. You're right; you weren't the one being critical. My bad

 

[GatorJoe]

unless he touched you in a sexual place, i don't see any reason why you couldn't simply pull away or tell him not to touch you in such a way. different cultures have different ways of expressing themselves. saudi men hold hands, europeans kiss as a greeting. my experience with mexicans is that they are very affectionate. if it bothered you, you should have said something. saying something to their boss after the fact is bush league and if i were the guys boss, i probably would have first asked u if u asked him to stop. it doesnt sound like u did.

 

[redrover]

Being the devils advocate

Heres a strange possibility maybe the DM due to the fact English is not his mother language confused buddy and friend so when he said Girl Friend meant Girl Buddy in lieu of Dive Buddy, trying to be politically correct in his mind. He was being overly attentive as he was worried due to her aforementioned conversation prior to the dive, shame we can't hear his side of the story.

Tips are based on interaction / performance with the clients, due to this I would certainly not complain and jeopardize his job, as there could be a perception issue here.

I do not think it strange; in fact it was my first impression... along the lines of cultural differences.
What if our molester should show up with the following post?

Hello, please excuse if make mistake, my English no so good. I was employment as Dive Master helping visitor enjoy the splendor of my waters in Mexico. Captain ask me pay special notice this lady visitor she is afraid. We made jokes and I try be special helpful make comfortable. It was not challenge this lady very nice. Now lady say I hurt her and not employment now. Has this happen to anyone Dive Master? What did you do?

For those of us from litigous societies we forget that SOMETIMES just mentioning a problem is enough to fix it in the rest of the world.

And too, the false accusation cast's a negative shadow.

I can hear it now..."I heard that DM so and so molested an older female diver, several times, several ways. She was a very strong professional woman well versed in harassment yet could not get away from him."
"Good heavens! What happened?"
"All I know is he held her down underwater and he must have threatened her somehow because she was afraid to make any complaint until she returned to the US."
"Well, that does it for me. Reginold! I do not care what other people say about it there. We are not going to Mexico!"

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Finally got through this thread. IMHO there have been some great responses and some totally inappropriate ones. I'll try not to be repetitive

I suspect that the OP hasn't responded to the question about tipping because she has got on with it.

Not all people are able to "pull up their socks (or other clothing) in all circumstances. Their ability to do so is based on upbringing, self confidence (can be dependent on the environment) and state of mind at the time of the situation.
Coping ability can be effected if you are tired, sick, in a relationship breakdown for instance. IMO we don't know enough about the state of mind of the OP to judge her reaction.

Yes there may be cultural issues, I'll even concede mixed messages... we have no idea what was in the DM's mind either.... lets cut them both a little slack.

Holding her hand.... heck one of my dive buddies held my hand today steadying me when we were exiting and a set of big waves rolled in. I appreciated his help and my husband who was surfacing behind me appreciated the offered hand too! "Brushing the sand off her legs" that I don't buy!

It seems to me she reported the situation as soon as she was in an environment where she was comfortable. I understand taking time to self assess... mull things over before deciding on the best course of action.

If we let these things ride, make excuses, accept "cultural" differences based on "macho professions" or ethnic issues we condone behaviors and nothing will change.

I don't necessarily think the guy deserves to be fired.... I do think he deserves to be informed what impact his behavior had on this lady. He deserves the chance to make the changes necessary to do his job well.

If you are strong enough/ when you are strong enough to stand up for what you believe is right... you stand up for yourself and those who are not strong enough to do so. This is how we improve as people and as a society.

 

[almitywife]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

g'day divers...

i have just gone thru this thread with a whipper snipper so if you are missing posts its because they have been deleted for being either off topic, inappropriate or name calling. usually when a post is deleted you are pm'd about this but to be honest there was way too many to contact each person individually.

please remember, this is Basic Scuba and the rules are "This forum has special rules. This forum is intended to be a very friendly, "flame free zone" where divers of any skill level may ask questions about basic scuba topics without fear of being accosted. Please show respect and courtesy at all times. Remember that the inquirer is looking for answers that they can understand. This is a learning zone and consequently, any off-topic or overly harsh responses will be removed."

many thanks

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