Divemaster touching me

[escapeartist]

Hmmm, a question.... why is it not ok for some women here to feel , as I do, that this situation as explained to us simply doesnt sound like harassment or worse? (Of course we were not there, so only the OP knows for sure)
Must all the women here support an opinion that isnt ours, just because the OP is a woman? I am all for solidarity, and I think that some posters (male and female) might have been more sensitive, but I think that the point of a forum is to be able to express one's opinion, without having to check the gender of the OP first...isnt it?

Diveress...I wasn't saying that what the OP experienced was harassment or assault. I, personally, don't feel that it was. I think it was a misunderstanding myself. I don't think the OP should go after the DM or his job. Your opinion and mine are the same. I just didn't express it. I think you're missing my point.

This has nothing to do with showing solidarity just because the OP is a woman. My statement wasn't about this incident in particular. I was just stating that some of the responses to this so-called "harassment" make it sound like all unwanted sexual attention can be avoided. That isn't always the case. Keep in mind that some of us have fought back aggressive men (as other women on this thread suggest we do) and lost. Some of the posts made it seem like the power is all in a woman's hands which, sometimes, it is not.

 

[Boat Chick]

I'm not sure what exactly the OP experienced, but I do want to make a general comment. Putting on "your big girl panties" and "just dealing" with a man harassing you doesn't always end well. Sometimes it's NOT a matter of "just saying no" or "telling him to back off." I'm sure many sexual assault victims would agree. I have put many men in their place...all I'm saying is it doesn't always work.

I'm not, in any way, saying that this was a sexual assault case but I feel that some of the comments made in response are offensive to women who have experienced serious unwanted sexual attention. Please don't assume all women have the power to ward off a man's advances and end the situation. It takes us back to the days when woman were supposedly "asking" for it.

Well said, and wow...I cannot believe this discussion is still going on. I feel bad for the OP, as she has not popped back in, I assume, because she feels she has been tarred and feathered for asking a simiple question in which she wanted feedback as a new diver.

Unless you have walked in someone elses shoes, keep in mind, you may not know how it feels.

 

[Tinytechie]

I dont think anyone needs to be that picky about diving in groups...You cant exactly get raped underwater... next time clobber him in the face... My experience is that a white woman travelling in any 3rd world country (or any country where they are a minority) is always going to get a lot of attention. Buy a fake wedding ring and tell them you are married and your husband is at the hotel.... its the best way to get rid of those sleeze bags in any situation without causing issues...

 

[J.R.]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

g'day divers...

i have just gone thru this thread with a whipper snipper so if you are missing posts its because they have been deleted for being either off topic, inappropriate or name calling. usually when a post is deleted you are pm'd about this but to be honest there was way too many to contact each person individually.

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Well... your house... your rules...

If the issues relating to 'standards' were that great though I would have prefered to see the thread moved to a heading more approriate to the topic (I don't personally believe this has to do with 'basic scuba') rather than see opinons, honestly given, axed in an unexplained manner.

Guess this goes with "smacking" as a solution...

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[bowlofpetunias]

Well... your house... your rules...

If the issues relating to 'standards' were that great though I would have prefered to see the thread moved to a heading more approriate to the topic (I don't personally believe this has to do with 'basic scuba') rather than see opinons, honestly given, axed in an unexplained manner.

Guess this goes with "smacking" as a solution...

IMHO some people post in this forum BECAUSE they feel safe here from Flaming and hard hitting comments. Some people like to give their opinions in a more forceful manner and call it freedom of speech. Some of us prefer a softer approach. There are places on Scuba Board for both approaches and I applaud that!

The OP is a fairly new diver who chose to post in this forum for her own reasons. We chose to respond or not for our reasons. I would like to thank Almitywife and the other Moderators who volunteer their time to make SB a place that caters in a reasonable manner to the needs and sensitivities of all members

 

[J.R.]

IMHO some people post in this forum BECAUSE they feel safe here from Flaming and hard hitting comments. Some people like to give their opinions in a more forceful manner and call it freedom of speech. Some of us prefer a softer approach. There are places on Scuba Board for both approaches and I applaud that!

The OP is a fairly new diver who chose to post in this forum for her own reasons. We chose to respond or not for our reasons. I would like to thank Almitywife and the other Moderators who volunteer their time to make SB a place that caters in a reasonable manner to the needs and sensitivities of all members

Well... I respect your opinon... but I keep remembering an old saying that goes, "Not everyone who pats your back is a friend... not everyone who kicks your *** is your enemy." I think that saying extremely applicable to this thread...

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Well... I respect your opinon... but I keep remembering an old saying that goes, "Not everyone who pats your back is a friend... not everyone who kicks your *** is your enemy." I think that saying extremely applicable to this thread...

I agree with that saying and when I need my *** kicked I'll let ya know but when I am already injured I'd rather have gentler treatment so I'll try to stay in a gentler environment:blinking:

 

[Scared Silly]

Off topic to a certain degree. A friend and I were working a AOW course and doing the night dive with a group of students. The instructor wanted to do a group dive with probably 8 students. We all descended and started off. It did not work very well so we all ascended. One student, a gal in her 20s expressed a little apprehension. The instructor said okay stick beside me and we will dive like geese fly in a v formation. The other dive master and I took up the rear. Down we went. Well the V formation lasted about 30 seconds.

At that point I saw two divers, grabbed their hands and swam out of the muck of the bottom of the pond. About a minute later we stopped and one of the divers shined their in their face - it was the other divemaster. The other diver was the gal who was originally in the front. She did not mind me grabbing her hand and neither did Jim. Afterwards we all laughed as she was the safest diver in the pond.

As for what happened to the OP - I see many things, difference in culture, over zealous DM (unwanted attention), failure to communicate, etc. We all kick ourselves in butt with hindsight. The question at this point upon reflection and the opinions of many others is what should the OP do? Only the OP can answer that.

 

[redrover]

Well said, and wow...I cannot believe this discussion is still going on. I feel bad for the OP, as she has not popped back in, I assume, because she feels she has been tarred and feathered for asking a simiple question in which she wanted feedback as a new diver.

Unless you have walked in someone elses shoes, keep in mind, you may not know how it feels.

I do not see a problem with a discussion lasting a week, why is that bad?

My feeling is like any other situation divers may encounter it is good for us all, men and women, to see various points of view and form our own conclusions for the future if in that situation; what to do. And my situation is a mid-50's female diving unescorted.

I do not see the OP tarred and feathered at all, let alone further traumatized except from what she presented, not all posters answered with what she wanted to hear.

 

[MissBubblyDiver]

But By all means clobber them next time, (as you must like to be in mexican prison where they will do what ever they want and nobdy can help you at all).

If you feel molested, learn how to dive with no assistance and your next trip wont be so uneventfull.



Happy Diving[/QUOTE]

How dare you be so ignorant. No one has the right to make any diver feel uncomfortable. He had no reason to touch her like that. It's not her fault and she shouldn't have to dive alone in order not to feel molested.
I understand what it's like a a female in this what seems like male dominated industry. Even as a divemaster, working as a professional in a dive shop I still get asked to bend over to pick up a tank by customers. I once had a diver try to take a picture of my in my bathing suit top on a boat. I told him immediately that was inappropriate and he does not have the right to photograph me. I also hear men all the time commenting on a woman's ass. I stand up for my gender reminding them that the twenty-something they are commenting on (if it be the case) are young enough to be their daughters. That shuts them up. An instructor approached me once about helping him with OW classes (who PADI is investigating a sexual harassment claim which I found out later). He told me not to wear a wet suit in the pool sessions, and I overheard him commenting on how hot a mother was in his class (he was certifying a mother, her husband and two teenaged kids). I decided not to work with him.
Let me make this clear to you. We have rights to be treated with respect, not as sex objects. If we feel uncomfortable we are not to be seen as an inconvenience. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO MAKE DEROGATORY COMMENTS OR TOUCH US INAPPROPRIATELY. WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS AND DESERVE THE SAME RESPECT.

Anyways to the original poster. You were right to complain to the shop. I wish you would have complained to the man himself or at least mention he was making you uncomfortable and that you found it inappropriate however I understand your fear ad regret you had such an experience with a dive master. No one, including professionals have the right to touch you like that. Next time maybe find out what agency he is working for a make a complaint to the dive agency.