Diver Rescue

[TSandM]

I do think, in this discussion, that we need to make a distinction between bringing a conscious but not responding (eg. passive panic) diver up in the water column, and retrieving an unconscious and unresponsive diver. In the former, grabbing the valve and swimming the person up in the water column (and reaching down to their dump valve to dump gas, if necessary) is a fairly easy thing to do. In the latter, controlling the person's buoyancy AND trying to maintain the regulator in their mouth is far more challenging.

BTW, although I'm not sure DCBC's post quoting Peter was AIMED at Peter, it is entirely untrue that either of us believes that Rescue skills are not "required" skills for a competent diver. They are not "required" in an OW class, nor should they be, IMO; but both of us believe that every diver should take Rescue.

 

[DCBC]

Because buoyant ascents are dangerous, and they don't want the liability. How responsible is that?

Bob as you know, there's a difference in doing an openwater rescue simulation and actually dropping the weight belt of a diver in OW at depth. Yes this can be dangerous and should be as a last resort and only used in an actual rescue situation at depth. This isn't an automatic requirement anyway, as a diver can be brought up at a safe ascent speed.

In their pool training, all my students are required to drop the victim's weight belt during a simulated paniky diver surface rescue. Talk to them, tell them to inflate the vest or have them drop their belt. Then it's decision time; wait for the person to go under and lose consciousness and react quickly, or perform a rescue while at the surface. It's a matter of judgement on the part of the rescuer.

If the diver is not trained in rescue, in the heat of the emergency he may elect to attempt a rescue anyway (completely oblivious to the hazards). I believe it's usually preferable to train a diver what to do in an emergency situation and then impress upon them that it is a personal judgement call that has to made at the time (with having an understanding of the rescuers condition, the environment and taking the hazards that are present into account).

You can't train common sense, but you can give people an idea what is required to deal with an emergency situation. Obviously prevention in the first instance is preferable, but accidents happen.

I've rescued a number of paniced divers at the surface. If you run a charter boat in challenging conditions long enough, it goes with the territory. It's not a difficult task to undertake if you have good buoyancy control and are patient.

I disagree that a paniky diver on the surface is unpredictable. The one thing that you can predict with certainty is that the victim will try not to go underwater. If the diver has good buoyancy control (a prerequisite for certification) any paniky victim on the surface may be safely approached underwater. Once the belt is dropped and the vest inflated, panic will stop. Positive buoyancy is a magic pill.

 

[DCBC]

BTW, although I'm not sure DCBC's post quoting Peter was AIMED at Peter, it is entirely untrue that either of us believes that Rescue skills are not "required" skills for a competent diver. They are not "required" in an OW class, nor should they be, IMO; but both of us believe that every diver should take Rescue.

Lynn, perhaps Peter misread the question, but that's not how he voted. That's why I asked him for clarification.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Interesting thread ... for those who believe that rescue skills should be taught at the OW level, how long do you think an OW class should be, and how much would you be willing to pay for it?

I happen to teach for an agency that mandates some level of rescue skill be taught at every level ... starting with OW. We train our divers in the basics ... air share while surfacing, tired diver tows, and surfacing an unconscious diver. We do not teach panicked diver intervention. Why? I believe it is because in the real world, the risks of creating a second victim would be too high for an entry-level diver who is still working to achieve a degree of mastery and comfort with their basic skills....

The rescue skills you describe, and Jim Lapenta described earlier are what I (as a non-instructor) think are appropriate in OW. That is about the level of training I received. It is well within the ability of the average OW student to learn these skills.

My concern is that when I observed / assisted with a couple (unnamed agency) basic OW classes in 2007, I thought the instructor was a great guy and a terrific teacher overall, but the very basic rescue skills you and Jim described were so watered down that they were almost meaningless.

You are able to teach them in your OW class, Jim can teach them in his, and I'm sure other instructors are too.... but not all are.

All should be.

Best wishes.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Another issue that is getting overlooked here, and it;s not surprising given the lack of focus in OW training regarding buddy skills, is that properly trained divers should not have to rescue each other when diving as buddies. I agree with this whole heartedly. Unfortunately can we even consider one or two weekend wonders and those who maybe dive once a year on vacation as properly trained. Or those new AOW divers who got their cert in the caribbean and are diving Monterey and it's their first time in a 7 mil with 26 lbs and a less than attentive instabuddy? Been there- helped the DM retrieve said diver when he got tangled in the kelp at the surface and was quite close to full panic. Rescue class is the place for one person scenarios. But I'm finding more and more that in OW - especially given my almost fanatic insistence on good buddy procedures - that doing 2 person rescues of the unconscious diver and the panicked diver not only give rescue skills but further reinforce buddy, communication, cooperation, and pre dive planning skills. It is a win - win situation. It is highly likely as I have found out that properly trained divers WILL run across those not so well equipped. Not might but will.

I did not plan for my first dive in the Pacific to also be my first ocean rescue assist. But it was. My 3rd dive in Puerto Rico had me putting two tanks back into bc's underwater. My student actually helped with that by making sure the divers did not get spooked by me helping them. They had no idea that it was quite possible a reg could be pulled out of their mouth in a minute. Blissfully unaware I think describes it well.

I have a pool session tonite. First night on scuba for these two. We will be setting the stage for rescues practice by introducing good buddy skills on scuba. Last week it was swimming and snorkeling/skin diving. In OW, AOW, and Rescue itself I put rescue skills. In OW it;s by teams, AOW team and individual skills are intro'd with 100ft no mask swims and ascents. Loss of buoyancy and support at surface. In OW these are done as well. Just more focus on team effort at the OW level. Panicked diver? Yes dangerous scenario for one person.

But with a well functioning buddy team where one tries to encourage self rescue and in fact distract the panicked person while the other descends and does the drop weights/climb the tank and inflate bc, the danger to the rescuers is greatly reduced. It also again reinforces the team effort mentality. It is not above the skills of an OW diver who has been given enough time to work on basics and get comfortable with them while adding to those basic tasks. This is why I have no problem with presenting scenarios in rescue or AOW to persons I have trained with no warning. Others are evaluated on a case by case basis but with just a bit of remediation they have no problems with it either.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Double post! Sorry my cat is intent on helping me today.

 

[Karel26]

I think they must include more of rescue in the OW. . My reason is, what if two (or more ) OW divers do a shore entry dive ( and stay in their qaulifications and experience level ) and they have a problem/scenario where there is a unconscious diver or what ever reason to be rescued.

All of us knewtday we went for our OW course that we are taking a risk every time when we dive and go under water ( because it is a high risk sport and one never know what may happen ). . I believe it will put alot of people to ease when they know they and their dive buddy can perform the minimum rescue if something might happen. . Leave the more in detail for the rescue divers, but give the minimum for the OW to make it a little bit riskier sport. .

Luckly I never had to do any rescue work yet. .

Live to dive and Dive to live. . . . :burnout:

 

[DCBC]

Thanks to everyone who participated in this survey. Almost half of you felt that the basic rescue skills described shoult be taught during the initial OW training. Almost 60% felt that it should be accomplished before AOW and 78% felt that these skills should be taught before the Rescue Diver Program. Hopefully more certification agencies will be attuned to your perceived training needs.

 

[DevonDiver]

On balance... I'd say that buddy skills (accident prevention) were far more important than rescue skills (accident resolution).

OW course hits the mark in addressing that priority.

It wouldn't matter how many dives I could fit onto an OW course... I wouldn't start teaching rescue skills until I felt the buddy skills were ingrained and effective.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I agree on that. And that is one of the big problems I see. Buddy skills are talked about in all classes but many don't go much beyond that talking. In the pool students I teach are buddied up from day one during the swimming and skin diving/snorkeling skills. On scuba the first thing buddies are required to do once we go under is make eye contact with each other. I see classes where it is damn near impossible to tell who is buddied with who. There is absolutely no excuse for this if you really do believe in the buddy system. Even worse is when students are led single file AT ANY time during checkouts. This is just plain stupid. Might as well take them and say even though we talked about the buddy system we are just going to take that and throw it in the garbage. You either teach it and use it or you don't. Again this is why given the time I have to do a class, buddy system and rescue as a buddy team is not above the capabilities of any of my students. Cut corners and time, and skills have to get cut. Ones that may save someone's life.