Diver Training, Has It Really Been Watered Down???

[CT-Rich]

I did the older NAUI program and I really looked forward to the classes. I was looking to learn rather than get certified. I recall it being a couple of times a week with pool sessions and going for months. I enjoyed every class. I did my Nitrox certification (the tech version) with SDI online and it was quick and easy (I learned on tables, so just an extension of something I learned decades ago).

Better? Worse? Different mostly. The SCUBA DIVER training I received was very comprehensive and thorough. I got to know people in the class and we had fun in class together. How well do you know anyone that you did your OW course with? I did ASSISTANT INSTRUCTOR in college and it was a full semester course. I had one evening meeting with the instructor for my NIXTROX and my daughter's OW class met twice in the class and twice in the pool and then two days of Openwater. I enjoyed the camaraderie of my early training. I doubt my daughter felt a connection to peers like I or @AfterDark did.

I was certified, but I also learned to dive. As others have said, not all students get both in the current system.

 

[JamesBon92007]

Just out of curiosity, how much pool time did you have? Did you practice skills dry? How long were your open water dives? Were you on your knees during most of the course or offthe bottom and somewhat trim?

Having gone from teaching on the knees to midwater (and working on proper weighting of students), I have found that I am able to produce better results much faster.

So in that case, it makes sense that less time is needed today than in the past. I understand that some skills have been dropped (like buddy breathing) and some have been added. So I’ll make the assumption that the number of skills and complexity hasn’t changed

I am only speaking for myself, but as far as I know they only taught "on the knees" when I took my course. I didn't have any trouble making the transition to diving with a BC 45 years later. Perhaps because I was used to no BC it was easy for me. To me the idea of trying to get students to achieve perfect neutral buoyancy in 6-7 feet of water and clear their mask etc seems difficult. I just don't see what's wrong with learning to clear your mask/regulator/etc and then trying to master neutral buoyancy. Don't you ever have students floating to the surface while trying to do an exercise?

 

[AfterDark]

Just out of curiosity, how much pool time did you have? Did you practice skills dry? How long were your open water dives? Were you on your knees during most of the course or offthe bottom and somewhat trim? (Or somewhere in between?)

Not looking for confrontation, just understanding what training was like back then. My understanding was that @boulderjohn was one of the pioneers within PADI pushing for courses to be taught neutrally buoyant and trim when he co-authored that article back in 2011.

Sadly, teaching this way is still controversial 7 years later.

Having gone from teaching on the knees to midwater (and working on proper weighting of students), I have found that I am able to produce better results much faster.

So in that case, it makes sense that less time is needed today than in the past. I understand that some skills have been dropped (like buddy breathing) and some have been added. So I’ll make the assumption that the number of skills and complexity hasn’t changed

It wasn't PADI or NAUI it was NASDS, it was 50 years ago but as recall we had 2hr class and 2hr pool for the 1st 6 weeks or so, I think it was probably more pool week 4-6. After that it was more pool than class, with class being mostly going over what we were going to do in the pool. Dry practice was done pool side followed by water practice. The only BCD we had were our lungs so trim and buoyance wasn't the fine science it is today.

The open water dives were great! We had 2 shore dives, and 2 boat dives.

I enjoyed the classroom hours almost as much as the pool. I like knowing the why as well as the how and when.

The reason it takes less time these days is 75% of what we were taught in the classroom simply isn't taught in what is called OW or AOW today.

 

[Scuba Scott]

I also learned that you shouldn't lose your C-Cards. PADI now charges $46 to replace them. Whhhhaaattt?

If you have a relationship with your local PADI shop you can get them replaced cheaper.

 

[Scuba Scott]

Not too shabby for one course @ $125.00 in 1968 dollars.

$125 in 1968 equals $909.01 in 2018.

 

[Ghost95]

I was originally certified in 1989 and the course was pretty good. We did 3 pool nights, 4 beach dives, and 2 boat dives. We learned tables and the basics of decompression injuries. Funny thing was as openwater divers we were supposed to be limited to 60' but the last two dives we're to 80'.

I talked to an old guy at the time about my course and he wasn't impressed. He said, "You mean they didn't rip off your mask, yank out your regulator, turn off your air, or kick you in the balls or anything? How are you going to learn to deal with an emergency?" I think he might have been serious.

Maybe they have watered it down a little over the years.

 

[CT-Rich]

I was originally certified in 1989 and the course was pretty good. We did 3 pool nights, 4 beach dives, and 2 boat dives. We learned tables and the basics of decompression injuries. Funny thing was as openwater divers we were supposed to be limited to 60' but the last two dives we're to 80'.

I talked to an old guy at the time about my course and he wasn't impressed. He said, "You mean they didn't rip off your mask, yank out your regulator, turn off your air, or kick you in the balls or anything? How are you going to learn to deal with an emergency?" I think he might have been serious.

Maybe they have watered it down a little over the years.

He was. And we learned the physics. Archemdes, Boyle, Charles and Dalton (ABCD). We also learned rescue tows andsome first aid. We spent several classes on how to calculate multiple dives on air and how to do deco dive calculations using Tables. And yes we learned on our knees. That is why the older divers are vexed by these “balanced rig” divers who insist on not needing ditchable weight. Horse collar BC with oral inflators were the norm. They had CO2 cartridges for emergencies. If they corroded or leaked you needed to ditch weight.

I spent several classes in the pool learning to skin dive before being taught anything with a tank. The swim test was given the in the first pool session. I never got my AI cert because apnea infection prevented me from swimming the length of the pool underwater (I only got two tries on the final checkout). I could remove all my gear on the bottom, free ascend and surface dive to the bottom and put it all back on.

 

[AfterDark]

$125 in 1968 equals $909.01 in 2018.

So right there is evidence of watering down. What's a OW course cost $300.- $400.00? Why so cheap? Most everything today is more expensive than it was in 1968 so why the price difference? Lack of content or watering down as the OP wrote. I guess it's good to know that at least new divers aren't being over charged! Although judging by some of the newbie horror stories posted here on SB I'd say some may disagree.

Now add the cost of an AOW course and it's getting closer to cost of the course I took. Combining OW and AOW is almost the equivalent of the basic scuba course of old, just not as comprehensive as the course of old..

 

[RIHappyDiver]

And back in the 1800s, it took months to cross the country. Nowadays people take a couple of hours. It was so much better before!

Long winded lectures are the very worst way one can convey information. Home study of written material is much, much more efficient. Online programs are even more efficient at conveying information. Students learn much, much more in much less time. I am truly sorry you suffered through an inferior instructional program, but at least you get to brag about how much more unnecessary time it took.

I have to say, I’ve gained some good information from many of your posts. Your obviously a very knowledgeable diver, probably a very good diver and maybe a really good instructor. But, based on this post, and others I’ve seen from you, you strike me as one of those “humiliate you for your failures” instructors that you mentioned in another thread.

I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t know you, and you may be completely different in person, but these posts are all I have to go on.

Erik

 

[AfterDark]

I've been hitting and running on this thread and haven't mentioned the most important ingredient IMO of the course I took and that is the instructors. There were 2, one did most of the classroom theory sessions the other the pool sessions. It was a very good mix because the classroom instructor was a school teacher and the pool instructor was a local "Mike Nelson" Navy diver, one of a handful of free diving spear gunners around MA and RI; made his living from co-owning a dive shop and doing diving jobs locally as well as diving instruction. His wife was a champion swimmer as was he, together they gave swimming lesson to city kids. Last I talked to his son he was in his 80's still diving down in FL. These guys were salt of the earth types that wanted to make a living, not killing. They didn't hold anybody's hand but they tried above and beyond to help people pass, including free swimming lesson during the open pool times at the YMCA.

This being said, I read these same type of values, attitudes, whatever the right word for it is in many posts from instructors on SB. I have no doubt the students of @boulderjohn are very lucky to have such a knowledgeable instructor There are instructors that I know, a few tell me some of the same things I read on SB, how their hands are tied to a degree, how they'd like to do more but most student don't want to put in the time, they want to get certified. Other instructors I know want to cert as my people as they can and will cut corners to get it done.

It's too bad the students that don't want to put in the time, that just want a cert can't be matched to those instructors that want to sell cards, and vise-verses.