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Fusion and p-valves -- How to handle the Lycra?

Discussion in 'Exposure Suits' started by TSandM, Mar 30, 2008.

  1. PinkPADIgal

    PinkPADIgal PADI Master Instructor

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    I know I may get flamed for this, but here is why it costs more to have this done at the factory.

    First, if you are having a made to order suit, having the p-valve installed at the factory would convienent, because it would be ready to dive when it reaches you. You are paying for the convienence of having it done at the factory. Could your LDS install it for you? Sure, but then you are waiting a couple of days to a couple of weeks to have it completed. Many of you are talented and can do that kind of work yourself but not everyone wants to trust themselves to poke a hole through their new drysuit.

    White's is installing a Si-Tech valve. Even though Whites buys in bulk, the valve isn't cheap. Part of the cost is the valve itself. Also, the pressure testing that White's does on all its suits is pretty impressive, better than anything that is done in most LDS. The Fusion is designed to fit differently. Getting the p-valve lined up perfectly and making sure that the valve is in the right spot is going to be different and a little more difficult than a regular drysuit. Lastly, White's is going to warrenty the work they do. Why wouldn't they?

    You are paying for convienence, workmanship and warranty. Also, keep in mind the exchange rate isn't what it used to be. Things cost more in Canada. So, if you trust yourself, or your LDS to install your p-valve right for you, then save the $$$. Otherwise, Whites can take care of putting in options for you. It is just going to cost more.
    :popcorn:
     
  2. TSandM

    TSandM Missed and loved by many. Rest in Peace ScubaBoard Supporter

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    Amy, you have some points, but over $400 to install a p-valve? Come on. I can send my suit back to Superior Diving Repair and have the neck and wrist seals AND boots replaced for less than that -- I know, because that's the estimate I got from them to do that work. And they leak test it, and warranty their work. This price is simply absurd, and my guess is that no one will take advantage of the opportunity to send the suit back to have it done. Further, it's hurting White's, because I now will almost certainly send my suit somewhere else to have any work done on it that needs to be done, knowing that White's prices are out of line.
     
  3. Rainer

    Rainer DIR Practitioner

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    And since it seems they have so little sense, I have no interest in considering the suit. Just feels like a rip-off (which of course it is). Stupid "policy" here makes me question the whole thing... :shakehead:
     
  4. Teamcasa

    Teamcasa Sr. Moderator ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Near Pasadena, CA
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    Is the high price quoted by Whites fair? That’s not the question. The question is, is it worth it to you to have the valve professionally installed and tested then returned to you accompanied by a full manufacturer’s warranty?

    I sure Whites has analyzed their costs, added a profit, determined their future warranty expenses and established the number. I’m sure it is fair from their point of view. Alternatives exist, use another drysuit repair company, do it yourself or pass altogether. These alternatives do not come with the manufacturers warranty or the security of knowing that if the professionals at the factory installed it and should it fail, Whites will stand behind it.

    That said, I’m a DIY guy. I know the risks and rewards of doing things like this myself.
     
  5. Dive Right In Scuba

    Dive Right In Scuba ScubaBoard Business Sponsor ScubaBoard Business Sponsor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Plainfield, Illinois, United States
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    You still have to wait a few days for them to install the valve at the factory :wink:
    Yes, the valve they use is more expensive and its a little more difficult suit to work on, but its also a very forgiving suit due to the "oversized interior suit" so its also a bit more forgiving if alignment is off a little.

    Im a LDS, online/brick and mortar, whatever....I want to make money on things like this, but to be honest....Im with the DIY on this one...it just seems too high for a P-valve......Its a p-valve...not the tech skin AND p-valve installed....but just a p-valve installed.
     
  6. TSandM

    TSandM Missed and loved by many. Rest in Peace ScubaBoard Supporter

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    Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, though . . . Just because White's may be making some unpalatable decisions regarding costs for their repair work doesn't mean the Fusion isn't a fantastic dry suit. I'm not the least bit unhappy about having bought one. I'll just send it somewhere else when I need my seals replaced, is all.
     
  7. LG Diver

    LG Diver DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Los Gatos, CA, USA
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    I agree 100% with this. To date, Whites has been fantastic about listening to customer feedback and reacting. First, with the need for a different skin that support pockets, then with a sales approach where customers don't have to buy a lycra skin and a tech skin (though some early adopters suffered as a result of this change), and now with their response to the p-valve costs. Sure, the pricing structure is still high and since I am comfortable doing my own install, I did. But the suit is fantastic and to say that you wouldn't consider a Fusion because you don't agree with their pricing scheme on p-valves is really reaching for a reason to bash the company, in my mind.
     
  8. Rainer

    Rainer DIR Practitioner

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    Hardly. It's a new concept, with no known track record, so I was already hesitant. I think the pricing for the tech skin already sucks (cost for two pockets is just as ridiculous as for the p-valve), I don't like the approach they took in not working s/t out with the early adopters who wanted a tech skin, and now the crazy pricing for this latest add-on. Sorry, I was on the fence to start (and I did like the concept), but all this added up makes this an easy pass for me.
     
  9. DiveJedi

    DiveJedi Course Director

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    So....I'm a cheap bugger I'll admit it....I buy a new Honda at a great price, when it needs work, I don't take it back to Honda, I take it to the local garage - it is definitely cheaper.... hopefully they do a good job (cross my fingers....with every new vehicle, technology changes, and so do methods of repair). Does that mean the garage will not do a good job....of course not; there are great authorized repair centers out there that know their stuff. But it is a risk I take - I have been burned before.....The speedometer in my car does not work....I took it to a local garage, they poked, prodded.....and after a $300 labor charge, my speedometer still does not work...If I had taken it to Honda.....I might be able to use something other than my RPM gauge to see how fast I'm going!!

    I'm sure you see the analogy....

    Here's an interesting example....Diver in the field wants a p-valve, he decides he would install "another manufacturer's valve" (which is totally fine) but he aquaseals the crap out of it (our suits and aquaseal are not friends), but he wants it stay dry.....the valve fails, he needs a new one installed - he sends it back to us "please take off the valve and install one of yours".....it is virtually impossible for us to reverse it, we can't get the valve off, and it is so messy, we now have to cut a huge hole around the valve, and put a big valve pad to cover up the hole, we send him the valve back with the piece of his suit still lodged between the inside and outside. It could have been so simple.....

    Upon sending your suit to Brooke (our repair tech mgr.) he opens up the leg, sews and welds a new valve pad, installs the valve, sews and re-welds the leg back up and in general fixes the issue to a professional standard, and then does a pressure test in our test tanks inspecting whether there are any other issues that need to be addressed. This is not what the LDS does (not to minimize what the LDS does)....but they are not the same......so I'm not sure it is fair to compare price either.....

    And while we are comparing prices….

    Our Competitor –

    Pressure test - $60.00 MSRP
    Installation of P-Valve (incl. valve) - $330.00 MSRP
    $390 total.....


    You will see these prices ....they are "normal" - it is your choice whether you choose to utilize them or not; just as I made a choice to deal with the local garage.

    The other question I have, that I am actually not sure of is:

    Does your LDS actually charge full MSRP?? Which are the prices we list, or because you bought your suit there, take classes there, buy other gear there, they opt to charge less?

    As always, we appreciate your thoughts.


    Tyler
     
  10. Skyjunky

    Skyjunky Barracuda

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    Do you have a recommendation on what glue to use if aquaseal is bad?
     

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