Halcyon: On the other hand.....

[roakey]

metridium once bubbled...

Because I've never noticed it with my 36lb Pioneer or my 55lb Classic-clone, and I'm wondering why that is.

The 36 bladder is O shaped so air movement from side to side is easier. The 18 Pioneer is the only Pioneer that emulates the Explorer wings in that it’s U shaped.

And now the guess:

I believe the Halcyon’s wing is cut to keep it lower and more tightly bound to the cylinders than the Dive Rite. This way your buoyancy is not so high that the diver is “dangling” beneath a balloon (and unable to adjust their roll attitude very well). This causes the air path in the bladder to be a bit more restricted and sensitive to pitch. The Dive Rite floats higher and allows the air to wander back and forth easier.

End of guess.

Someone needs to look at these two wings side-by-side on divers in the water some time.

Roak

 

[metridium]

Uncle Pug wrote...

Sure... but I love to hear it too...
I just isn't a big deal... I was only trying to humor you metridium

I getcha, UP.

Seriously, though, if I could eliminate all bubble and gear-related noise, I would. Now that I have the drysuit and p-valve, it's the only thing that intrudes on the UW world....

don't think my bank account's ready for a rebreather, though...nor do I think rebreathers are ready for me, either. Too many deaths.....

 

[Uncle Pug]

metridium once bubbled...
if I could eliminate all bubble and gear-related noise, I would.

... yes... but...

Why do you think the hoses are routed across the back of your neck?

 

[JamesK]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

... yes... but...

Why do you think the hoses are routed across the back of your neck?

Two reasons....

One so you can hear a pinhole leak in a hose.....

Two, to keep anything from lodging between your doubles and causing an entanglement hazard. The crisscross of the hoses keeps anything, such as cave line, from wedging itself deep in between your doubles and your back.

oh, and quite a few others too.

 

[metridium]

Uncle Pug wrote...

... yes... but...

Why do you think the hoses are routed across the back of your neck?

I'd have to go with JamesK's reason #2, plus the impracticality of running them in front of the neck.

But what does that have to do with bubble noise from the second stage and air-shifting noise from the wing?

 

[Uncle Pug]

metridium once bubbled...
But what does that have to do with bubble noise

James first answer...
in other words...
situational awareness.

Silence is not always golden... ask the deaf.

Sound gives us cues as to what is happening and is very important when direction visual observation is not possible.

 

[JamesK]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

James first answer...
in other words...
situational awareness.

Silence is not always golden... ask the deaf.

Sound gives us cues as to what is happening and is very important when direction visual observation is not possible.

If I can hear y bubbles, I know I am not dead! That works for my dive buddies too. If I can hear there bubbles, I know they are close behind, and I can tell if they are getting excited, or stressed by their rate of breathing.

 

[Uncle Pug]

What are some of the other auditory cues that are important?

 

[metridium]

Uncle Pug wrote...

James first answer...

Really? Surprising, because I would have thought the second answer was the prime determinant. Otherwise, I'd tend to think it'd be easier to hear leaks if they're perpendicular to the ear, rather than behind the head. The ears face out and forward, after all, so if the first answer were the prime reason, wouldn't you want to run the hoses off each post forward instead of crossing them behind?

Uncle Pug wrote...
Silence is not always golden... ask the deaf.

Sound gives us cues as to what is happening and is very important when direction visual observation is not possible.

Granted, but I had thought it would go without saying that I was referring to eliminating unnecessary noises (e.g. very loud exhaled bubbles) without compromising the ability to hear leaks.

 

[Uncle Pug]

metridium once bubbled...
Really?

Just because it was listed first by James and referenced by me doesn't mean we consider it the *prime determinant*....

Just trying to point out to you that we use audible cues... and the movement of gas from one side of the wing to the other is not an annoyance but one more cue as to the state of things.

And.... I am... Uncle Pug... nothing goes unsaid

Eventually