Halcyon Prouduction, DIR, and ironic facts of life

[LUBOLD8431]

Have YOU actually seen the 10 companies dealer agreement???

And which ones are they???

 

[JohnF]

Genesis once bubbled...


Take a look at the dealer agreements from any 10 random "larger" manufacturers.

Look at their pricing policies.

You will find something curious. That sheet of paper, which carries no signature (its a policy statement, not a "contract") is nearly word-for-word identical. In fact, it looks like it was written by the same lawyer.

Take a look at 10 landlords' rental agreements. Chances are they'll be nearly word-for-word identical too. It doesn't mean the collusion bogeyman is looking over your shoulder. It's more likely that they copied some or all of what someone else was doing because the language works, has even been tested in the courts.

I buy software every year or so from a popular office supply retailer. I use this software to print off all the forms involved in renting eleven residential properties. If I use it and it keeps being updated by the company that sells it, then I assume others are using it as well. I understand lawyers have common language resources that they rely on as well. Stands to reason there might be some significant similarities in the language they produce in their forms as well since the intent of their clients is presumably similar.

Because something becomes an unofficial Industry Standard doesn't necessarily mean there was conscious collusion going on.

It would be naive to say that there is absolutely no collusion in business. There are often tacit understandings that serve the purposes of competing businesses. It's the nature of the beast that businesses work so hard at levelling the playing field while all the time they're looking for a leg up on the competition. So they copy their competition religiously hoping for some miracle that will set them apart. You may well be right about the similarities, but I think you're wrong on the chicanery. The end result appears to be collusion when in fact it's almost the opposite.

It's a variation on why you'll always see a Loew's pop up across the street from a Home Depot, or McDonalds, Wendy's and Burger King all being in the same block. In their case demographics have shown that it's where the customers will most likely be. But it's competition, not collusion.

JohnF

 

[O-ring]

Genesis once bubbled...


Take a look at the dealer agreements from any 10 random "larger" manufacturers.

Look at their pricing policies.

You will find something curious. That sheet of paper, which carries no signature (its a policy statement, not a "contract") is nearly word-for-word identical. In fact, it looks like it was written by the same lawyer.

These are 10 "independant" companies, none of who "colluded" on this policy.

Yet it is nearly word-for-word identical.

Maybe the executives had the same college English professor? An affinity for good verbage that just happened to result in a similarly worded statement? Copied someone else's statement?

Of course it could be aliens if we take the "Genesis" approach to things and start believing in every conspiracy out there... Did you know that there were some crop circles found in Idaho that bear a striking resemblance to Halcyon's new logo? Maybe they are in collusion with aliens and Elvis and have formed a committee for the uniformity of crop circles.. Is that collusion?

 

[large_diver]

Of course it could be aliens if we take the "Genesis" approach to things and start believing in every conspiracy out there... Did you know that there were some crop circles found in Idaho that bear a striking resemblance to Halcyon's new logo? Maybe they are in collusion with aliens and Elvis and have formed a committee for the uniformity of crop circles.. Is that collusion?

I think I heard those stories about the same time I heard that George Irvine was seen on the grassy knoll.......;-)

 

[SeaJay]

"Grassy Knoll"

"Elvis"

"Aliens"

Y'all are too much.

Next, someone with some Photoshop talent is going to create a series of "Where's GI3" pictures, not unlike the "Where's Waldo" ones that everyone's familiar with.

Hilarious.

 

[Exorcist]

Genesis,
Noted your "diversunion" website a while ago. I thought you were a front for Leisure Pro. So, we may both be conspiracy theorists.

 

[Genesis]

Have YOU actually seen the 10 companies dealer agreement???

And which ones are they???

You list some of the companies I have copies of here at my house in your profile as firms you are an "authorized service technician" for.

Since you can only get there by working for or owning a dive shop, you know damn good and well which firms these are among the list you have personally provided in your profile.

 

[Genesis]

Noted your "diversunion" website a while ago. I thought you were a front for Leisure Pro. So, we may both be conspiracy theorists.

Oh, that's hilarious.

 

[detroit diver]

Who the h*ll ever mentioned price?

We are talking about a customer service issue here. Some guy got treated badly by a sales person.

You've got to get off this pricing fixation. It might be valid, but it's got nothing to do with this thread.

Genesis once bubbled...


If you can play "price restraint" and threaten to or actually cancel a dealer's account for selling at $1 less than your "desired" price, you certainly can cancel a dealership because a dealer's employee takes an action or makes a statement that reflects poorly on the company.

You are right, Detroit, in that control is supposed to be lost when the product leaves the manufacturer. Unfortunately, the gist of the issue with regards to the restraints is that the pricing issue is one they will land on you for like a tank falling from the sky, while something like this gent reported is considered "beyond our control."

In my view its selective blindness for the purpose of protecting dealers (rather than customers - and without them, where are you?) and reflects poorly on the organization involved.

 

[roakey]

Man, we have just GOT to hide the soapboxes around here.

Yhea, Genesis' whining has gotten quite strident as of late. He himself has implemented about every boycott possible, but fails to realize that in order for a boycott to really work, you need enough people behind it to make it work.

I think the temper tantrums are because such a small number of people agree with him he's starting to realize that his "Diver's Union" is totally ineffective. Yhea he found a couple companies that are "open source" but that's about it...

There are a number of valid points that Genesis has made in the past, it's just the repetitive posts and the endless spittle-spraying rants have caused many, including me, to simply stop listening. JJ, unless you pay Genesis to use your product, I doubt he'll ever be happy.

I'm the first to agree that the industry is really screwed up, but you don't go after the LDS's to solve the problem -- they're trapped between customers and the manufacturers, and it's with some manufacturers that the problem lies.

So trying to put the the squeeze on the LDS in order to "get at" the manufacturers is like shooting prisoners to make the Warden change his habits.

Sorry, give me a solution where I don't have to hurt the innocent to get at the guilty and I'll climb on board.

Roak

Ps. I used to say Genesis had called for a boycott on everything but air, but a couple months ago he even called for THAT!