Halcyon Prouduction, DIR, and ironic facts of life

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Unless you own the retail shop, you lose control once the product leaves your factory. It's just a fact of business.

If you can play "price restraint" and threaten to or actually cancel a dealer's account for selling at $1 less than your "desired" price, you certainly can cancel a dealership because a dealer's employee takes an action or makes a statement that reflects poorly on the company.

You are right, Detroit, in that control is supposed to be lost when the product leaves the manufacturer. Unfortunately, the gist of the issue with regards to the restraints is that the pricing issue is one they will land on you for like a tank falling from the sky, while something like this gent reported is considered "beyond our control."

In my view its selective blindness for the purpose of protecting dealers (rather than customers - and without them, where are you?) and reflects poorly on the organization involved.
 
Hi, BlackIce. Sounds like you had a good deal there. Kind to share with us the address and contact of Blue Manta? At least, this will be the first place to really look through the MC system with proper guidance.

The shop which you and mleong mentioned, Richmond Supplies, is the distributor of Scubapro and only a dealer for Halcyon (I think). But it goes to show how much the dealer has in the
interests of Halcyon.

My experience is with Silent Explorers who I think is the agent for Halcyon in Singapore. This is a totally different story. I think JJ would probably be more interested in their own APPOINTED AGENTS and their attitude towards customer service as well as their control over their dealers' attitude.


:boom:

edit: I too have ordered a 45# Oxycheq wing from Chris at Covci. Although, I paid 40USD for shipping and S$30.00+ in taxes and handling charges. I still felt I had a good deal, simply because of customer service!

Well, JJ you have lost 2 potential customer over the last month. What do you say?
 
Hi all,
I don't mean to doubt JJ at all in any way. It is just that maybe JJ should voice out to the dealer/distributor involve to improve on the service and courtesy of their staff. After all, they are selling Halcyon. Of course I would not expect JJ to have control over them.
As for Richmond, if they want to push Scubapro products, go ahead, but why bother with other brands at all if they are not going to promote them. After all it is a waste of money stocking any of the products anyway.
How I got to know of Richmond was because I bought a pair of Jet Fins from a distributor here in Kuala Lumpur. They only sells SB products. The bags they use has Richmond on it.
So that is how Me and Bloop end up buying the Oxycheq wing instead. Very honestly speaking, I kind of like the new Halcyon wing. I WILL NOT go back to Richmond again for this. It will be Silent Explorer or Living seas or Blue manta.


:) :)


Mleong
 
Every single time I go Richmond, it is still the same thing. They simply ignore or being unfriendly.

Living Seas are always out diving... so no chance to talk to anyone at all.

:(

So that leaves Blue Manta.....
 
Mr JJ,

Since you are in Australia at the moment, will you be dropping by Singapore anytime soon? Well, we can form an escort troop and show you what we meant in all our posts.

A field trip probably and also to see for yourself what needs improving.

Although, we may need to disguise you a little.

How about that?

Of course, we can go for a nice dinner (Vegetarian if you prefer) and some of the good old Singapore night entertainment if you are feeling up to it.

:mean:
 
Good idea, Bloop. I will be very happy to join you guys.
 
mleong,

If JJ flies to Singapore and you start to drive down from KL at the same time. Both of you will probably arrive at the same time!!

:D
 
i'm with Bloop.

At the start of this year idecided to ditch my old BC. I sent e mails to both dive rite and Halcyon in singapore for further information on BC's. I did not recieve one reply from halcyon, not one, despite two attempts on my part (and i know the e mails were read).

I now have a transpac II, thanks to Koni's detailed answers to my requests.

I try to give people the oportunity to sell to me but no responces and i assume your support will be the same.

I get the gist of what Genesis is trying to put over and maybe should explain situation here. For a small island and population (approx 4M) we have many divers and also many people passing through so the LDS are very active. In general the dive training centres and LDS are separate entities, with the training people offering goodies like masks lights etc, but not really getting into BC's or regs. To me this is a good scenario plenty of choice plenty of shops and on the whole balanced opinions. For instance the afore mentioned Richmond (scubapro) shop is oposite the oceanic shop, dont like the service then 1 minute walk and you have another choice.

So the dive training centres don't see equipment as a way to make their margin, they offer service which will hopefully keep the new diver taking trips with them.

now all i need to do is find out how much the oxycheq wings cost to ship, bloop?
 
I bought the DIR book, and although I am changing my gear configuration, it is more because BP/wing owners rave about it so much rather than because it's DIR. I appreciate what GUE and DIR have done to foster more and safety-minded thinking in recreational dive circles, however. I think you've done us all a tremendous service.

I may never take the DIR-F course (don't dive much) but I may. But I'll likely dive with DIR divers who seem very willing to share their training and ideas (most without being condescending, I might add--the ones on this board are very good folks). Your book has convinced me to be very careful about diving my limits, changing my mindset, generally getting more serious. We'll never know how many injuries or deaths DIR concepts prevent because they got either sloppy or simply uninformed divers to do it right. You are to be commended.

As for running a business, anyone who does knows your employees have bad days (no excuse, but it happens), more often your customers have bad days and a couple of these can make your most cheerful employee less than cheerful in a hurry. Goofy things happen when your product goes through many hands. One of my former partners was fond of saying, "This would be a great business if it weren't for the customers." :wink: I suspect you run a fine business, and I am going to get your new wing when available, the timing is perfect.

Not that you need to defend yourself on this issue, but I'll throw my 2 cents in on your pricing. If you believe you have a superior product and you want it to be sold only by shops with helpful, experienced staffs, the only way you can do this is through price control because your stuff will be sold by inexperienced and/or unqualified people at the local warehouse or Internet shop otherwise. You cannot control that, if you let price float that will necessarily happen, to the detriment of your experienced dealers. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but I suspect, knowing your philosophy, you are very interested in your gear being sold by reputable shops with good people, and one of the only ways you can ensure this is through price control. Genesis, this is not anti-competitive, by the way! It would be if JJ were colluding with Scubapro and other manufacturers trying to get most of the industry on board with price collusion a la OPEC. That's not the case. You can find all kinds of cheap stuff at leisurepro, and that's a good thing. I don't think only being able to get Halcyon at a high-quality LDS is a bad thing. The consumer has plenty of choices, the industry is plenty competitive, and I respect JJ's right to sell the way he wants to. Interestingly, I signed your petition, but I will happily buy Halcyon gear when I feel it's the best choice for me, and I don't have any problem with their pricing policies.

Thanks very much for posting here!
 
Genesis, this is not anti-competitive, by the way! It would be if JJ were colluding with Scubapro and other manufacturers trying to get most of the industry on board with price collusion a la OPEC. That's not the case.

Take a look at the dealer agreements from any 10 random "larger" manufacturers.

Look at their pricing policies.

You will find something curious. That sheet of paper, which carries no signature (its a policy statement, not a "contract") is nearly word-for-word identical. In fact, it looks like it was written by the same lawyer.

These are 10 "independant" companies, none of who "colluded" on this policy.

Yet it is nearly word-for-word identical.
 

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