Hog and DIR gear configurations not welcome :-(

[turnerjd]

I am going to go against the flow here.

Hog or DIR rigs have no place in a recreational rescue class. They are designed for specific types of diving, outside the sphere of 'lowest common denominator rec diving'. In my personal oppinion, they are part of the natural progression of a diver, and perhaps should come after rescue class. In many ways I like the PADI system where OW teaches you how to dive, AOW opens your eyes to the types of dive out there, and when you are comfortable in the water go on to rescue, that introduces skills for helping others. Then (to my mind) comes the time to go further, and investigate DIR or Hog rigs, and more technical diving, and to get the relevant training. I would suggest that if the OP has been trained correctly in DIR or hog diving then they should already have the necessary skills that they have no need for a rec. rescue class.

The recreational rescue class is the most fun of the classes that PADI do. It is such fun because there is so much practical work to do. However, this is where having somebody in DIR or hog rig makes things more difficult. If there is only one student with this type of rig, they will have to be paired with a rec rig wearer for many activities, which is not particularly good for the rec student, nor the DIR/hog student. It doubles the instructor workload in many of the exercises as a second demonstration has to be made for everything, explaining the different ways of doing things. Simple things like removing the bcd at the surface are different, and over the period of the class the simple explication of the different skills can seriously increase the time taken to do everything. Now, two DIR/ hog divers together, or even a class full of them would be fine.

Now, I would also suggest that if the OP was not trained in DIR or Hog diving, then simply adopting the kit, and continuing the rec training is not getting the best out of the kit, and should abandon rec training and go to somebody like GUE. Getting training adapted to the gear and style of diving would seem like a good idea, no?

 

[Simon-]

turnerjd,

The basis behind the rescue course does not limit you to just assisting your buddy. It is for assisting anyone that may need help before, during or after a dive.

The exposure to students of differing kit configurations can only be of benefit to the students. Not everyone they dive or dive near will be in a jacket bcd.

 

[Aquamaniac]

I am going to go against the flow here.

Hog or DIR rigs have no place in a recreational rescue class. They are designed for specific types of diving, outside the sphere of 'lowest common denominator rec diving'.

OP...These are the kind of idiotic, un-educated instructors you need to steer clear of.

 

[turnerjd]

turnerjd,

The basis behind the rescue course does not limit you to just assisting your buddy. It is for assisting anyone that may need help before, during or after a dive.

The exposure to students of differing kit configurations can only be of benefit to the students. Not everyone they dive or dive near will be in a jacket bcd.

I can only agree that it would help. However, in the descent to the lowest common denominator, how many of the other people in the Rescue class are actually interested in DIR or Hog kit? Don't forget that scubaboard is the exception, with a lot of knowledgable divers here, looking for solutions that may be found in this type of equipment. However the real world has a lot that want to do just the bare minimum to get the cert. Certainly, if the instructor is

However, it doesn't answer the question as to what somebody with this sort of rig is doing in a rec rescue class? If they have been trained (by gue or any other agency) to use the equipment they should have no need to be in the class, no?

Jon

---------- Post added May 6th, 2012 at 01:25 PM ----------

OP...These are the kind of idiotic, un-educated instructors you need to steer clear of.

Idiotic is a bit strong no?

In my defense, here in France DIR and Hog setups are as rare as rocking horse droppings.

However, if somebody wanted a rec. rescue course, and turned up with this type of gear I would be suspicious. If they were properly trained to dive such equipment, they should be already have skills past the rescue level, and I would be interested to know why they were taking a retrograde step.

If they were not trained to use this type of gear, but only had PADI style training, I would strongly suggest that perhaps a course like GUE Fundamentals would be better for them, and they would learn techniques more appropriate to their diving.

Idiotic and closed mind, I hope not, I would just want the student to get the best out of their diving, and not waste time and money.

Jon

 

[rongoodman]

It's too early in the morning for this debate(again!). I was diving in my BP/W with long hose/bungeed back-up on my very first dive after OW, and other than sidemount recently in the caves, have never done a dive in anything else. It's worked for a dozen trips to warm water in the Caribbean and Mexico, and it worked in PADI Rescue. Although we didn't cut me out of the harness, I would have had no problem with such a demonstration to show just how simple it is--it would have cost about $15 to replace it.

 

[Tao of the Dive]

Well, my thinking is this...Say you have a bunch of divers at Ginnie Springs for the purposes of this example...and a DIR/Hog diver suddenly has an issue.......(I'm sorry, I cant stop laughing right now, let me get back to you)...

Okay, so the DIR/Hog diver has an issue they cannot seem to resolve without outside aid, not super realistic, but moving right along. It would behoove a rescue diver to have been exposed to various configurations out there, not JUST recreational configs. They should know how to effectively rescue or aid Tec divers, CCR divers, anything just short of hard hat divers, (I mean really, when is the last time you saw a hard hat diver at a recreational dive site?) But you always see a mix of disciplines at dive sites. So in my opinion, an instructor who limits his class to recreational gear only, is doing his students a massive disservice, and is not adequately preparing them for the real world of diving. Whereas a DIR/HOG diver is prepared and trained to be a better air donator by virtue of having the long hose. It is drilled into them ad nauseum. What this boils down to is fear by instructors of the unknown, and a close minded, unwillingness to embrace new theory and embrace things that as a whole would make more divers safer. What is best practices for DIR/HOG can be best practice for the recreational community, but they are too busy dumbing it down for the masses to focus on safer/better, they just like their version of safer. Not that it takes a genius to dive a long hose, or that it would be hard to teach in OW.

---------- Post added May 6th, 2012 at 07:47 AM ----------

It is not a step backwards per se. Many divers, my son and I included, are progressing towards tec before we address lower level classes. The system is designed such that we are able to progress towards tec level classes without taking certain other classes. I already have medic, my son does not, however neither of us have taken AOW. We will have to in order to advance, but we have elected to take cavern first. Then Nitrox, then AOW while we wait for him to get old enough to start taking Cave classes. Not everyones class progression is the same. If we had stayed strictly recreational, then yes, we would be forced to adhere to a certain class progression. But as it is, we have bigger goals, bigger horizons, and we should not he required to resort back to gear we are gladly abandoning *(and selling off) for what we feel are better/safer configurations. I would oprefer if there was a tec variant class for rescue/Medic, but as there is not a stand-a-lone class, then we must resort to having the recreational version.

I can only agree that it would help. However, in the descent to the lowest common denominator, how many of the other people in the Rescue class are actually interested in DIR or Hog kit? Don't forget that scubaboard is the exception, with a lot of knowledgable divers here, looking for solutions that may be found in this type of equipment. However the real world has a lot that want to do just the bare minimum to get the cert. Certainly, if the instructor is

However, it doesn't answer the question as to what somebody with this sort of rig is doing in a rec rescue class? If they have been trained (by gue or any other agency) to use the equipment they should have no need to be in the class, no?

Jon

---------- Post added May 6th, 2012 at 01:25 PM ----------



Idiotic is a bit strong no?

In my defense, here in France DIR and Hog setups are as rare as rocking horse droppings.

However, if somebody wanted a rec. rescue course, and turned up with this type of gear I would be suspicious. If they were properly trained to dive such equipment, they should be already have skills past the rescue level, and I would be interested to know why they were taking a retrograde step.

If they were not trained to use this type of gear, but only had PADI style training, I would strongly suggest that perhaps a course like GUE Fundamentals would be better for them, and they would learn techniques more appropriate to their diving.

Idiotic and closed mind, I hope not, I would just want the student to get the best out of their diving, and not waste time and money.

Jon

 

[mala]

i think for the purpose of a rescue class its always better for everyone to have similar kit.

afterwards you can dive how you want-as long as you are your buddy are happy that you each understand how to react in the case of a problem.

 

[ianr33]

however neither of us have taken AOW. We will have to in order to advance, but we have elected to take cavern first. Then Nitrox, then AOW while we wait for him to get old enough to start taking Cave classes.

You probably don't need to do AOW and it might be a waste of time and money. Certainly don't need it for NACD cave,other agencies may be different.

 

[turnerjd]

It is not a step backwards per se. Many divers, my son and I included, are progressing towards tec before we address lower level classes. The system is designed such that we are able to progress towards tec level classes without taking certain other classes. I already have medic, my son does not, however neither of us have taken AOW. We will have to in order to advance, but we have elected to take cavern first.

Aow first, then cavern, as it is à prerequisite if you stay with PADI for the cavern.

then Nitrox, then AOW while we wait for him to get old enough to start taking Cave classes. Not everyones class progression is the same. If we had stayed strictly recreational, then yes, we would be forced to adhere to a certain class progression. But as it is, we have bigger goals, bigger horizons, and we should not he required to resort back to gear we are gladly abandoning *(and selling off) for what we feel are better/safer configurations. I would oprefer if there was a tec variant class for rescue/Medic, but as there is not a stand-a-lone class, then we must resort to having the recreational version.

My thought on reading this is that you are diving the gear with no instruction, and personally I would suggest that a short period with a suitably qualified instructor on the gear you have, practicing the skills necessary, and explaining the DIR / hog rig and the choices necessary would be a good thing.

However, I would also agree that GUE ought to sort out a tech rescue class, as this would appear to be one of their missing elements. However, to produce such a class would, of course mean admitting that one of their divers could have a problem (note: humour!)

Jon

 

[JahJahwarrior]

I think instructors should welcome various gear types to rescue classes. In the real world you never know what you might face and it's good to have experience with multiple rigs.

If I were a rescue instructor (I'll get around to it one day, promise!) I would have multiple bc types and regulator hose setups and make every student do the simulated rescue exercises with each type.

Getting that bc off for a rescue swim ain't so easy if it's lacking buckles