Instructors who yell for no reason

[The Chairman]

Russian class back in the mid-seventies, Gaspadin Barksdale (who spoke Russian with a Texas twang) we had this one guy who kept putting the wrong acCent' on the wrong syLAbull. We were expecting him to lose it at any time, but he just kept it fun> "Sounds like broken Iriquois to me..." and so forth. No yelling. No bigger fuss than having a bit of fun with it.

 

[SeaHorse81]

Yelling that simulates urgency is totally fair game. As is being crystal clear about truths that may be difficult to hear. I believe the people who know their stuff are capable of both in a manner that does not come across as abusive.

 

[lowviz]

Well then there's very obviously a disconnect somewhere in the narrative as Edd is the instructor that the OP is talking about, outed on another forum. Unless there's another "Edd" teaching cave courses in Florida.

How about a 'first person' account? I hesitate to join this fray, but Edd is being unfairly beat upon and I won't stand silently by and watch.

I failed Edd's Intro course due to my lack of fundamental skills. Many cards ago, I failed a different course taught by another name instructor. That one turned out to be an 'assessment' course, I had no idea that I needed to exhibit said skills to pass. The instructor did nothing in the way of instructing me.

Edd, however, answered my "I'm wasting your time" comment with "I'm an instructor, I can teach at any level." And he did. Even told me at one point: "I'm (Edd) getting steamed." Never, ever yelled at me. I call BS on anyone who says he does.

He watches SB, but he doesn't post. I have nothing but respect for the man.

Edd: I nearly have my **** totally together, you have my folder in your file cabinet. We will meet again someday when I am at the skill level you require as a beginning. Neither of us is in any big rush...

 

[Marktan]

I agree that the context needs to be brought into proper perspective. The learning and teaching styles for both instructor and student need to be in sync. For this I'd recommend (in addition to recommendations of others) perhaps calling the instructor directly and getting to know them a bit before signing up. I think that for basic OW skills and certs, an open dialogue with encouragement and relatively positive feedback is a good thing.

I do believe, however, that the game changes completely when it comes to the advanced Technical certifications(Cave, AN, DT, Rebreather), as is the case in the OPs example. Quite frankly not everyone should be doing it especially if they don't have the skillset; I don't care how much money you throw at them. It puts the instructors and those who dive with that student in the future in a precarious situation.

When a person "holds themselves out as" and presents C-cards showing AOW, or Master Diver, or 1000 dives diver, etc. I believe that it should be safe to assume that a solid (not just basic) level of understanding and skillset (buoyancy, finning, gas management, no-reference ascent descent and stops, and self awareness/control) has been reached, or they shouldn't be pursuing said advanced certification yet. The advanced certification instructor is there to teach just that; not to waste time going over remedial techniques that should have already been mastered. In fact, I'd be pissed if I had paid good money to "learn from the best" and a fellow student was wasting everyone's time over something "basic". It is also very possible, that in those advanced classes (cave in particular) that if a student "doesn't get something but is still trying very hard" it will still 100% put them or someone else in a dangerous or deadly situation. It's not either-or. Trying does not remove the element of danger, nor does trying entitle a pass to the cert if the instructor doesn't feel the student is ready.

Reminds me of the time in my office that one of my employees was boasting about how he just got his firearm concealed carry license and wanted to pursue his instructor certification and to begin competitive match shooting because he had just obtained his pistol sharpshooter rating at his local range over the weekend. He thought he was "badass" because he was "ahead of the curve" and none of his friends had got their CC or sharpshooter yet. Out of curiosity, I asked if he was carrying (no problem if he was). He said "Yes, here I just got a new holster, let me show you...", and proceeded to show me his very nice Kimber Ultracarry2, unholster it, and set it on my desk (without checking the chamber or removing the magazine) and POINTING THE BARREL DIRECTLY AT ME. I looked up at him with a very surprised look and said "I'd appreciate it if you pointed that away from me".
His response: "Huh? Oh yeah, I just forgot, it's no big deal the safety is on". Guess what? I yelled at him. My whole office (and probably the suites next door) heard me yell at him and watched me throw him out of my office along with some very colorful commentary about how he had no business pursuing certs as an instructor with that attitude. Have the basics down first.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I've also raised my voice in rescue classes to add to the simulation and increase realism.

That is one course where there should be a lot of yelling to raise the stress levels of the students to make it as realistic as possible. Hmm, maybe that would be a good time to call my students "maggot"

 

[boulderjohn]

For some people, being coddled and handheld works great, for others, not so much. For some, a hard line drill instructor type of learning environment is the best way to achieve maximum performance, for others, it doesn't work at all.

Look at your wording. You appear to be taking a neutral position, but you use a fairly positive term to describe "tough guy" approach, and extremely pejorative terms for the other. Your statement comes across as "Choose an instructor that matches your style. If you are a real diver who wants to learn and improve, you will go with one. If you are a total worthless wimp with a fragile ego, then choose the other."

By coincidence, my first tech instructor used the terms "coddled" and Handheld" to describe what he would not be doing in the class. What that translated into was "I am not going to explain how to do skills. I am not gong to demonstrate how to do skills. I am just going to tell you to do them and then yell, mock, and ridicule when you don't do them right."

 

[boulderjohn]

You don't like the way Edd Sorensen teaches? Don't take a cave class from him. Bottom lin

I have taken two classes from Edd Sorenson. In those two classes he never yelled at me or any other student. There were several serious screwups from a couple of the students, and he was very patient with them.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I have taken two classes from Edd Sorenson. In those two classes he never yelled at me or any other student. There were several serious screwups from a couple of the students, and he was very patient with them.

I'm thinking about just talking to each student individually on how to best communicate with them. This was spurred by Gareth Locke's work here: Secret Language to Connect with and Motivate your Students.

I don't have a teaching background like you John, so I'm at a disadvantage, but do want to figure out how to best communicate with each of my student. If they need to be led along gently, so be it. If they want a more drill sergeant style instructor, I can do that too. As long as they are good with it and it works for them.

 

[boulderjohn]

I taught high school students for many years, and in that setting you have a tremendous range of students in terms of attitude, motivation, etc. Many of them absolutely do not want to be in class. Many are just complying with the legality of required attendance before they can be allowed to drop out. If you as the teacher want to be successful, you have to adopt your style to motivate and encourage them to succeed when they have no interest in succeeding to begin with.

In extreme contrast, people who take technical diving classes are highly motivated. They expect the class to be difficult, and they expect to be challenged. They are paying money for the class, and they definitely want to succeed. When such people make mistakes, they beat themselves up. They get very down on themselves. There is absolutely no need to yell at them. They are already yelling at themselves.

After a cave diving class session in which I had a problem and knew my performance was not acceptable, I felt miserable. When we were done with the dive, my instructor did not say a word to me about it. We went back to our vehicles, took our gear off, and ate lunch. Still nothing said. We put our gear together for the next dive. Still nothing. Finally, we began to put our gear on. He slapped me on the back and said, "It wasn't that bad. Let's go do it right."

I did.

 

[lowviz]

I'm thinking about just talking to each student individually ...//...

Maybe keep your class size down to the number of personalities that you are able to assume.

J/K. You seem to have a sense of humor.

Maybe try this instead: How to Increase Your Emotional Intelligence ― 6 Essentials