I've always wanted to learn how to use a rebreather!

[beester]

I don't realy understand these kind of inquiries. I can understand asking questions about the functioning etc of scr and ccr, because it realy is very interesting technology.

Maybe I'm overly conservative but hey... asking about rebreather courses when you're a beginning diver (checking the OPs profile) is a bit strange IMO.

I know one rebreather diver in my immediate circle and he's an instructor with 1000+ dives who is also extended range, trimix certified and is doing so much dives using trimix or heliox that switching to rebreather was the economical and practical decision.

Rebreathing does not make sense imo to use for shallow water extended dives. You can easily do that on air or nitrox. You could even extend that to about 100 feet without too much hassle if you use big enough tanks and are not afraid of deco obligation.

Next to that I don't see that a new diver (and I consider myself also a new diver) should consider training on rebreathers. The taskloading because of simple facts as buoyancy (not being able to use your lungs anymore for buoyancy), or setting up the rebreather set might be already too much for beginning divers. If you up the taskloading because of emergency drills this is even more critical. And I'm not even talking about the intrinsic risks involved with rebreathing (hypercapnia, hypoxia, hyperoxia)...

Why should an beginning or even intermediate diver need rebreathing?

Maybe I'm just a bit too paranoid but I'm under the assumption that you first learn to crawl... then walk before starting to run.

 

[Mr.X]

I don't realy understand these kind of inquiries. I can understand asking questions about the functioning etc of scr and ccr, because it realy is very interesting technology.

Maybe I'm overly conservative but hey... asking about rebreather courses when you're a beginning diver (checking the OPs profile) is a bit strange IMO.

I know one rebreather diver in my immediate circle and he's an instructor with 1000+ dives who is also extended range, trimix certified and is doing so much dives using trimix or heliox that switching to rebreather was the economical and practical decision.

Rebreathing does not make sense imo to use for shallow water extended dives. You can easily do that on air or nitrox. You could even extend that to about 100 feet without too much hassle if you use big enough tanks and are not afraid of deco obligation.

Next to that I don't see that a new diver (and I consider myself also a new diver) should consider training on rebreathers. The taskloading because of simple facts as buoyancy (not being able to use your lungs anymore for buoyancy), or setting up the rebreather set might be already too much for beginning divers. If you up the taskloading because of emergency drills this is even more critical. And I'm not even talking about the intrinsic risks involved with rebreathing (hypercapnia, hypoxia, hyperoxia)...

Why should an beginning or even intermediate diver need rebreathing?

Maybe I'm just a bit too paranoid but I'm under the assumption that you first learn to crawl... then walk before starting to run.

Very interesting commentary. I think newbies asking questions is always good. Sad thing is that the people who ask these questions here on SB typically have zero investment in their own questions.

Whatever motivation an individual has for sports, there is almost always a manufacturer there to fill the niche. In the RB market there have been attempts to allow newbies easy access to RB diving. Almost push-button diving. The Japanese SCR Fieno was one of these attempts. The Drager Ray certainly fits that category. The Sport KISS to a lesser degree. The first one is non-existent, and the other certainly not worth the effort (IMO).

My thought is why not train someone from the ground up to be an RB diver? Of course, it would be far more stringent than a typical OC course. However, in the end you might develop a product (student) who is supremely aware & competent with regards to RB diving? Just food for thought.

Of course, if I were being asked to invest tons of money and hours for what was essentially a dip in the water I'd bag anything to do with a dedicated newbie RB course.

Cheers,

X

 

[Jimmer]

My thought is why not train someone from the ground up to be an RB diver? Of course, it would be far more stringent than a typical OC course. However, in the end you might develop a product (student) who is supremely aware & competent with regards to RB diving? Just food for thought.

The Navy does it all the time. Now mind you that the Navy's courses are a little more involved than ours, but I have also talked to a few people on the board here that were in a rebreather within their first year and did all their tech training on it as well. I've talked to a lot of rebreather divers on rebreatherworld, here, and Ontario Diving, that all say if they have a rebreather they are going to dive it on any and all dive, regardless of how shallow it may be, just to keep their skills up.

 

[caveseeker7]

Rebreather diving in the military is quite a bit different than in the civillian world.
For most part they're used only for combat swimming below the surface to remain unseen (special forces with O2 rebreathers, the LAR V in the the US) or to dispose of explosive ordenance (MK16 in the US). The O2 rigs and their use are obviously an entirely different altogether, but download the USN dive manual and have a look at the protokol for mixed gas CCR diving. The MK16 Mod1 UBA dive team requires 4 people, the Diver, a Standby Diver, a Diver Tender and a Standby Diver Tender. In addition, an EOD Diving Officer needs to be in control either on site (can have one of the previous functions, too) or by constant voice com during RSP dives. A Diving Supervisor may act as a Timekeeper/Recorder, or you'll need one of those, too. When decompression diving, you'll also need an EBS Operator.

Adds up quickly, and for most part recreational/technical diving is done with nowhere near the surface/in-water support that NAVY divers get. Different world, very different world, where the diving part of the time underwater tends to be the least risky part of the job. Far from some guy fiddling with equipment the night before he heads to dive boat, does a quick pos/neg check and pre-breathe (if at all) and jumps in for a dive ... .

As far as a new diver inquiring about rebreathers, what's unusual about it? Why not?
Just returned from a dive show in the UK, rebreathers all over the place. AP, ISC, C2R, Jetsam, rEvo RB, all had booths. Training agencies had units on their booths, BSAC even their own RB tryout pool. Training centers/instructors had more of them, as did a couple of retailers. You read about them in magazines, see them on TV, they're more visible than ever. Of course people are gonna ask about them.

Just because someone has just gotten their drivers license doesn't mean that person shouldn't be asking about motorsports if they're intrested in that, or inquire about jets if they just got their PPL.

And this forum is just the place where they should ask about it.

 

[beester]

You are correct Caveseeker 7... And I must honestly admit that there is nothing wrong with the OP's initial inquiry.

However to use your analogy. You could ask about motorsports but don't expect to be taken seriously if you ask... where do I take a course to drive your competition rally car. No that takes alot of luck, and you have to climb a ladder step by step and on each step you'll need to prove yourself!

This maybe is not a good example because a competition race-car is beyond most people means while a rebreather is not.. so the decision who drives the car won't be yours. Compare it then with a full blown semi-race-bike (like a Ducati D1098S or something similar). It's more or less within most people means, but most people don't have the experience needed to drive a bike that will accelarate 60 mph in 2 secs with just a small turn of the throttle. Could you buy it... you bet... could someone stop you driving it... not very likely, will you survive without the necessary experience... that's anybodies guess but at one point probably sooner then later mr. murphy will bite you in the ***.

 

[SamArkey]

As far as a new diver inquiring about rebreathers, what's unusual about it? Why not?
Just returned from a dive show in the UK, rebreathers all over the place. AP, ISC, C2R, Jetsam, rEvo RB, all had booths. Training agencies had units on their booths, BSAC even their own RB tryout pool. Training centers/instructors had more of them, as did a couple of retailers. You read about them in magazines, see them on TV, they're more visible than ever. Of course people are gonna ask about them.

Just because someone has just gotten their drivers license doesn't mean that person shouldn't be asking about motorsports if they're intrested in that, or inquire about jets if they just got their PPL.

And this forum is just the place where they should ask about it.

Thank you. That what i wanted to say to the people who think that just because I'm a new diver I shouldn't be able to explore my options (keyword "explore", I never said I was definatly going to do it ).

 

[SteveAD]

The greatest danger a newbie faces is not knowing what they don't know. Those of us who have been around for a while, whether RB qualified or not, have learned how complex and involved RBs are. Someone just out of OW may only know that an RB lets you stay down a LOT longer. Questions are good!

 

[beester]

Thank you. That what i wanted to say to the people who think that just because I'm a new diver I shouldn't be able to explore my options (keyword "explore", I never said I was definatly going to do it ).

I understand... but why? Because you're into technology? Because you want to dive deep... because you want to dive extremely long... because you feel that the bubbles from OC are interfering with your camera work / scaring away the fish... etc etc

Being into technology... trying to get to know the intricate details of sophisticated equipment like that is fun... it also would make you a better OC diver because when you understand the physics behind it... it will aid you in your normal diving too (partial pressures, buyancy, physical dangers, etc)... I understand this...

But your original thread title implies that you want to learn this (I've always wanted to learn how to use a rebreather). This I do not understand...

We are both new divers... I started diving in february of this year... and have now about 80 dives in. I got to know rebreathers because of the above mentioned guy... I just asked him about it ... and he told me more about his particular ccr rebreather. So like you I'm interested...but I can not see myself for the first 3 to 400 dives start doing this... because I'll be too busy exploring all that there is left to explore on OC... not because of dangers (through training you can significantly lessen those)... but because I will be able to do whatever I've planned on OC much more easily then on rebreathing. When I'm no longer able to do most of my diving easy on OC then I'll seriously consider rebreathing... but that 's still a long way...

So what I wanted to know from you was... what are your diving plans in the near future that you are considering rebreathing diving already?

 

[SFLDiver3445]

I hate to burst all of your bubbles, but entry level diving being taught on rebreathers is an inevitability. I do not see it happening anytime very soon, but don't be surprised when it does appear.

Right now, primarily because of the cost and the perceived safety considerations of most rebreathers, the purchase of one is usually only undertaken by more experienced or technical divers, becuase most entry-level divers would not even consider making such a huge investments from the get go. However, when the cost eventually is driven down and manufacturers invision the potential profits from selling to the masses, the training agencies will develop courses for entry-level divers. If memory serves me, it wasn't to long ago that we were having this very discussion about the use of nitrox for the masses - that I do remember.

Just my humble opinion as an inactive PADI open water instructor and open circuit trimix diver who now exlusively dives a Dive Rite Optima Close Circuit Rebreather.

 

[Robert Thompson]

Thank you. That what i wanted to say to the people who think that just because I'm a new diver I shouldn't be able to explore my options (keyword "explore", I never said I was definatly going to do it ).

There is no reason you can't head in that direction. Keep in mind that rebreathers are not as forgiving as open circuit, but as long as you are taught properly, you'll be fine. As far as buoyancy you will be better off because OC buoyancy is not as second nature to you as a seasoned diver. You have to learn it over anyway. The benefits of CCR are many, if you like close encounters with sea life you'll have it. If you like long no deco limits within 100feet you'll have that too. Not to mention, you'll use hardly any gas. Sounds pretty good doesn't it.