List of dive destinations to not go to...

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

I see your point of view on pricing and agree with the theory. I just question your pricing.

Like you, I am from the east cost too. How does Belize cost the same as Thailand ?

For 30,000 Baht you can do a 7 day liveaboard in Thailand. Here:

Cheap Diving Khao Lak :: Similan Islands Diving with MV Andaman Liveaboard

This is less than 1000 USD for diving boarding and lodging. Flight to Thailand is 1400 so a ball-park figure of 2400 is what can get you to thailand and back. If you wanted a liveaboard experience in Belize then just the liveaboard is 2195. Airfare is 700 so Belize comes out to be 2895 for a liveaboard experience. Even if you wanted to do land based diving in Belize then you are still looking at more or less the same price.

Belize Diving | Underwater Odyssey Package - Robert's Grove

My understanding is that Belize charges "US-dollar rates" to all visitors. This is not because the diving in Belize is better than Asia Pacific, but more because of its proximity to millions of American tourists who think in dollars and don't want to fly too far. A lot of places outside the flying range of "the American tourist" offer equal or better diving but still have prices that reflect developing nations. That is where our dollar becomes gold.

 

[Wookie]

From previous threads however, there seems to be a general consensus on Scubaboard that Asia Pacific is superior to the Caribbean. Thus if Belize is costing the same as Thailand then Belize is to be dropped for Thailand which is superior diving.

Let's look at it a different way. If you take the number of east coast divers that go to Belize versus the number that go to Thailand, I would venture a guess that way more go to Belize than Thailand. I have nothing to base that on except I know a large number of East Coast divers and while most have been to Belize, not all have been to Thailand. I have been to Belize a number of times, but never to Thailand to dive. If I went back to Belize, I would not be likely to write about it, because everyone else has, and I wouldn't feel that writing a trip report would be worth my time, as what needs to be said has been. I would very likely write about going to Thailand because of how exotic the destination is.

You make an assumption that most divers are on ScubaBoard, and that they write trip reports. I would guess that less than 10% of my clients have ever heard of ScubaBoard, and trying to get one to write a trip report is like pulling teeth. I take folks every week to the Dry Tortugas. The most common response by far is "Wow, I didn't know the reefs were so good here". No, because no one trusts the operator reviews, and hardly anyone writes trip reviews any more. You've been to the Dry Tortugas. It's awesome reefs. Try to find more than one or 2 reports, yet Rick (Ultimate Getaway) and I take more than 1000 east coast divers a year. If you are basing dive destinations by what you see written on ScubaBoard, I shall have to ask you to turn in your spare air and split fins.

 

[chillyinCanada]

The Belize dollar is set at two to $1US. Never changes. If you want it in Belize dollars multiply by two.

Robert's Grove? Geez, try some apples to oranges why don't you? Why not Turtle Inn while you are at it?

 

[ronscuba]

For 30,000 Baht you can do a 7 day liveaboard in Thailand. Here:

Cheap Diving Khao Lak :: Similan Islands Diving with MV Andaman Liveaboard

This is less than 1000 USD for diving boarding and lodging. Flight to Thailand is 1400 so a ball-park figure of 2400 is what can get you to thailand and back. If you wanted a liveaboard experience in Belize then just the liveaboard is 2195. Airfare is 700 so Belize comes out to be 2895 for a liveaboard experience. Even if you wanted to do land based diving in Belize then you are still looking at more or less the same price.

Belize Diving | Underwater Odyssey Package - Robert's Grove

My understanding is that Belize charges "US-dollar rates" to all visitors. This is not because the diving in Belize is better than Asia Pacific, but more because of its proximity to millions of American tourists who think in dollars and don't want to fly too far. A lot of places outside the flying range of "the American tourist" offer equal or better diving but still have prices that reflect developing nations. That is where our dollar becomes gold.

Wow. I had no idea Thailand liveaboards were that cheap. I wonder if there are differences with the boat food and room quality compared to the Belize live aboard boats. My 2 Belize live aboard trips we had our own private room with bathroom, AC, TV, beer and wine.

Or it could be like you say, all about the USD value.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

The Belize dollar is set at two to $1US. Never changes. If you want it in Belize dollars multiply by two.

Robert's Grove? Geez, try some apples to oranges why don't you? Why not Turtle Inn while you are at it?

And Thailand Baht is set at 31.87 to 1 USD! How about you find me the cheapest 7-day package that Belize has to offer and then I can compare it to the cheapest Thailand if offering.

---------- Post added September 11th, 2013 at 11:03 PM ----------

Let's look at it a different way. If you take the number of east coast divers that go to Belize versus the number that go to Thailand, I would venture a guess that way more go to Belize than Thailand. I have nothing to base that on except I know a large number of East Coast divers and while most have been to Belize, not all have been to Thailand. I have been to Belize a number of times, but never to Thailand to dive. If I went back to Belize, I would not be likely to write about it, because everyone else has, and I wouldn't feel that writing a trip report would be worth my time, as what needs to be said has been. I would very likely write about going to Thailand because of how exotic the destination is.

You make an assumption that most divers are on ScubaBoard, and that they write trip reports. I would guess that less than 10% of my clients have ever heard of ScubaBoard, and trying to get one to write a trip report is like pulling teeth. I take folks every week to the Dry Tortugas. The most common response by far is "Wow, I didn't know the reefs were so good here". No, because no one trusts the operator reviews, and hardly anyone writes trip reviews any more. You've been to the Dry Tortugas. It's awesome reefs. Try to find more than one or 2 reports, yet Rick (Ultimate Getaway) and I take more than 1000 east coast divers a year. If you are basing dive destinations by what you see written on ScubaBoard, I shall have to ask you to turn in your spare air and split fins.

Yes what you are saying is very possible. Now here are some numbers regarding our two destinations.

Belize:

Coral Species: 57
Fish Species: 195
Reef Coverage: 1330 km 2
Protected Marine Parks 9

Thailand

Coral Species 700
Fish Species 600 (according to Diving the World Footprint and 4000 according to these guys (Coral Reefs in Thailand - are generally in excellent condition | lantaoldtown.com)
Reef Coverage 4000 km (Some of this falls in Myanmar but most of it is in Thailand)
Protected Marine Parks 16

These are figures from "Diving the World: A Guide to the Worlds Coral Seas." There is some debate on the exactness of numbers because sources vary a little but even by the most conservative estimates for Thailand and the most liberal estimates for Belize, Thailand wins over Belize for the sheer numbers of corals, the coverage of corals and the presence of marine life. If there is any value in those numbers then Thailand should be Belize on Steroids many many times over.

Assuming that we ignore all of this data and say that both destination are equal!!!Even then a trip to Thailand could be cheaper than Belize! The only downside is the long flight. If people are paying extra to dive Belize just to avoid the long flight then that is understandable.

---------- Post added September 11th, 2013 at 11:06 PM ----------

Wow. I had no idea Thailand liveaboards were that cheap. I wonder if there are differences with the boat food and room quality compared to the Belize live aboard boats. My 2 Belize live aboard trips we had our own private room with bathroom, AC, TV, beer and wine.

Or it could be like you say, all about the USD value.

Yes. I wonder that too. I would love to hear from people who have been on budget liveaboards in Thailand. I am just wondering how bad could they be? Its a boat, it floats, people eat on it and they have toilets.

 

[ronscuba]

Speaking of Thailand, my friend is getting married there and I am researching to do some diving before hand. Marcia from Gekko scuba in Phuket is helping me sort out the details and reminded me that because of time zone changes and flight connections, I need to allow an extra two days to travel there. That means 2 additional vacation days and possible overnight costs.

Whatever the costs and time allowance works out to be, I would not say avoid Belize. It just looks like Thailand is a bargain.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Apples to apples, as to liveaboard rates only. Please refer to the two Belize boats and the one Thailand boat.

Aggressor Fleet-The Ultimate in LiveAboards Since 1984

 

[Rhone Man]

Sure, I'll play. Why not.

1. Caribbean: Most destinations here need to be avoided because the dive prices seem to be up there with the worlds best destinations but the quality of diving is not. The only exception is Bonaire where cost / dive evens out as it allows unlimited diving. Cozumel could also be one of the places to go because it offers Cenote dives along with the reef dive experience and there are not a lot of places that enable you to combine both in one trip. The rest of the Caribbean (Belize, Caymans etc) would force the tourist to pay more for the same type of dives that one can have in Bonaire (or even Florida Keys).

Generalising a bit. "The Caribbean" is a huge area, covering things as diverse as the Bianca C in Grenada to Bloody Bay Wall in Little Cayman. However I'd probably agree as a general statement that you get less bang for your buck in the Caribbean than you do in Asia-Pacific or the Red Sea (although depending upon where you live flights are a lot cheaper and the topside is (IMHO) usually nicer).

2. Australia: Needs to be avoided, once again for high prices. Great Barrier reef is "Great" for being the largest reef but not necessarily the prettiest. Better reef diving can be done in Indonesia for a cheaper price tag.

Absolutely. Everybody else please stay away from Australia. I don't like crowds.

3. Hawaii: Needs to be avoided because the lack of color makes diving bland! The large animal encounters that it boasts can be had for a cheaper price in Bahamas and also in Azores (Which has a volcano too).

Yep, that was pretty much my view too.

4. Florida Gulf Coast: Now I am not too entirely convinced on this myself but the overall perception tends to be that the best diving is on the Atlantic coast. For someone who is visiting Florida only for diving, it would be a waste of $$$ to leave the Atlantic coast and go West to dive the Gulf coast. Exception to this would be technical dives on the Oriskany.

Never done the Gulf coast, but nothing I have heard suggests to me that is obviously wrong.

5. Galapagos: Once again I have to force myself to write this. There is an iconic value attached to this place but Socorro and Cocos offer the same kind of animal encounters without the price tag. If one could do both the Cocos liveaboard and the Soccorro liveaboard for the same price as one Galapagos trip then Galapagos loses on price vs quality to the combined trip value of both these areas combined.

See Australia.

6. Virgin Islands: Reviews generally say that for diving alone, this is not in the same league as rest of the Caribbean.

Not sure if you are talking about USVI, BVI or both. Having dived quite a lot of the Caribbean, I tend to describe the BVI as "middle third" of Caribbean diving. I'd rank BVI higher than the USVI. They are not as good as Turks & Caicos, Saba, Little Cayman and the elites, but they are considerably better than Jamaica, DR, PR, St Martin and the dross. They are about on a level with St Lucia, St Kitts and Grenada. (I will leave Dominica out of the equation because it is like marmite - some people love it, some people hate it).

Just thinking loud and trying to generate a controversy . Did I miss something?

The only two places I have dived where I thought "not going to do that again!" were Hong Kong and Aberdeen, Scotland. I am sorry, but there are just some places God did not intend divers to go to.

I had a friend who went Great White Shark cage diving in Guadelope, and he said the first half hour was amazing, but then he said you realise that for the next three days, you get to spend all day every day in five feet of water looking at the same two animals. You think about that when weighing up a steep price tag and an 18 hour boat ride each way.

---------- Post added September 12th, 2013 at 12:33 AM ----------

And Thailand Baht is set at 31.87 to 1 USD! How about you find me the cheapest 7-day package that Belize has to offer and then I can compare it to the cheapest Thailand if offering.

Plus Thai girls are waaaay prettier than Belize girls. Just sayin'. As we are being controversial and all. Actually that is not really controversial.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Maybe so Rrhoneman maybe so . . . But then again the prettiest girls in Thailand aren't always girls

 

[Hike]

I like the tier system more too. Here is a list of dive destinations of the world with approximate/ball parks costs involved to travel to these places and dive them. These costs include air travel (from DC area where I am based) and dive and stay packages.

NFL and Labrador 700 air + 1700 =2400
Iceland 700 air + 2500 (Westfjord), 3621 (Highlight), 1168 (Silfra+Strytan) = from 2000 to 4300
Alaska 700 air + 2700 = 3400
Gods Pocket (Browning Pass) 700 air + 2000 = 2700
Socorro (Nautilus Explorer) 2750 + 500 air = 3250
Cocos 4935 liveaboard + 600 = 5535
Komodo 2700 (Liveaboard)+ 1800 air = 4500
Raja Ampat 3000 (Liveaboard) 1950 air = 4950
Fiji 3000 (Liveaboard) + 1800 air = 4800
Palau (Liveaboard) 2630 + 2000 = 4630
PNG (Liveaboard) 3000 + 9430 = 12430
Galapagos (Liveaboard) 5395 + 687 = 6082
Bonaire 700 air + 1000 = 1700
Belize 707 + 2400 = 3107
Cayman 730 + 2000 = 2730
Puerto Rico 350 + 1500 = 1850
Playa Del Carmen + Cozumel Flight = 700 + 7 nights 1200 + 300 = 2200 including meals
Little Cayman = 565 + 2814 = 3379
Turks and Caicos = 500 + 900 (5 days) = 1400
Blackbeard Bahamas = 1000 + 400 = 1400
Bonne Terre mine: 450 Car and Flight + 480 diving and hotel = 930
Tobermory 80/ dive 160 + hotel 3 nights = 330 = 490 (wont need airfare)
Catalina LA 400 air + 3 day liveaboard 750 = 1150
Dry Tortugas = 1000 + 400 flights = 1400
Croatia 600 (6 night 10 dives) + 1300 airfare = 1900
South Africa = 1200 + 407 (6 night 10 dives) = 1607

As you can see some destinations are really high on the overall cost but relatively low on quality. Example Belize and Little Cayman. Granted there are a lot of people who have gone there and had fun but just scroll up and look at the places that they could have gone with that kind of money. Once you put marketing aside and look at the numbers in comparison to everything else available, Belize and Little Cayman are actually places to avoid (if you want your money's worth diving wise).

There are many other tourist traps up there on that list. Yes PNG is great diving but is it worth over 12000???

Similarly there are some great dive destinations that offer more value for the money but are less known. Croatia for example is one place that is insanely cheap! 6 days of diving plus hotel accommodation and some meals for 598 USD. This is Adriatic sea and is considered world class diving.

You have to find yourself a decent travel agent, because some of these flight prices are ridiculous. There are very few places on this planet it takes more than 2000usd to get to. Even PNG can be done for around 2,000usd from the east coast.