Master scuba diver - why the negativity?

[ZenDiver.3D]

I guess the moral of that story is not to take an unknown quantity into a high-risk, high-stress diving situation.

I agree though... that qualification/status can lead to judgement errors, where divers don't want to lose face by admitting (to others or even to themselves) that a dive is beyond their skill or experience level. The higher the qualification/status level, the more self-induced pressure there is...

Absolutely. We have developed hard rules since that happened. But that was 5 years ago.... I like to hope we have grown since then.

Yes, I think that is very much the case.

 

[Kern]

If you can answer that question,- "Why can't I own a Canadian?"....

Canadians are such nice, polite people.

Should make great slaves.

Just a minute, are you a..... "MASTER DIVER"?

I might do a master driver course too. Then I can get a slave driver to drive the dive slaves & I to the site. Mmn, I'll have to get a people mover to fit all these young ladies & their kit in.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Canadians are such nice, polite people.

Should make great slaves.

Just a minute, are you a..... "MASTER DIVER"?

I might do a master driver course too. Then I can get a slave driver to drive the dive slaves & I to the site. Mmn, I'll have to get a people mover to fit all these young ladies & their kit in.

actually, I Have couple of dive slaves. They are called children.....:cool2:

 

[hg frogman]

I have one that stands out. This MSD came to dive with us on a wreck we have. We only allow really experienced divers on this dive. It is not too deep, just 37 meters, but the currents are ripping and if you get blown off the wreck, you end up in the shipping lanes. So.
This guy came and asked to do it. We talked about his dive experience. He explained that he was a MSD. With over 350 dives in all types of conditions. Of course he could handle strong currents. Well, the lead guy on that dive said OK. Not a big deal.
We were having a fun day for our DM's and some close friends and customers. This particular guy was the third one down the line. He got to about 15 meters, his eyes blew up, and he hit his elevator button hard, we had 4 of our guys behind him getting a hand on him, as he fought them. The last guy was dumping his purges and holding him to a safer speed of ascent and went up with him, holding the line so as not to get ripped out to sea. When we all got back, the guy was still pissed that we kept him from being a rocket ship.
He then told us that he had fudged a little. He had 350ish dives. All in crystal clear non-current carribean waters. But he was a master diver and should have been able to handle anything.... This was his rationale for lying. He hit the low vis and the current pull and lost his mind.
This is just the most extreme that I have seen. Of course, I have listened to the bragging on boats by MSD's, DM's, Rescue divers, and AOW's. It is interesting how a little knowledge makes some people experts.
But I do see where the negativity can come from. Some like to impress the newbs with their exalted status. Not all, by any means. But enough to give a reputation.

Interesting example, but in my opinion not specific from MSDs.

That can and does happen from AOWDs all the way to DMs, OWSIs and more (whatever the agency). And from OWDs as well, provided they have more than a couple of logged dives.

A very good point about MSDs is that this certification shows they tried to improve themselves as divers (how successfully is another topic).

A terribly bad point about MSDs is the marketing craziness of calling them "Master" divers. Some people get to believe this stupidity and take the name for real, though a successful training should create the right attitude and make them well aware of their limits and that we ALL are small in front of the sea. 50 dives or even 100 don't make an experienced diver, and even a diver with thousands of dives may get in real trouble, for instance in an unusual environment or in unusual circumstances.

But in my opinion the case is even worse with so-called "Advanced" divers (with as much as 9 logged dives). Though most of those I met were lucid about themselves as divers.

The real culprits behind this are marketing guys, or aren't they ?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think the problem - if there were one - would be in what people don't understand about the certs.
Master Diver = continuing education class
Dive Master = Professional, insured and in charge of other divers

Good for you If you get either, but if you want to "reach the end of the road" that would be somewhere in the range of :Full Cave, ADV TRIMIX, or TRIMIX REBREATHER.:cool2:
.....although these just mean you have even more to learn, you will just be judged by living or dying, not by the card you carry.

Pretty much ... I've discovered that the farther "down the road" I go with my scuba education, the more "road" I see in front of me. I don't think there is an end ... we each just decide how far we want to go ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rcs9250]

Not that long ago PADI required a night dive for Advanced. There were some people that couldn't handle a night dive so it was eliminated.
IMO to be a Master Diver a night dive should be mandatory.
The master thing could be beat to death. Pretty much already has.
As someone posted, it might be better to have levels instead.
In skydiving they have 4 license levels , A,B,C and D. At a drop zone they
had certain jumps that require a certain license to participate in certain jumps.
We live in a psychological marketing driven world. If they can make someone feel better about themselves they'll do it.
Both scuba and skydiving are spin offs of heavily disciplined military occupations. In the beginning they were much more macho oriented. As marketers saw the opportunity to make a living or corporation out of it , it evolved to where we are today.
Compare todays ntrox with computers specialty to two years ago. Wow , what a difference.
It's changing . Is it for the good ? I don't know, we'll have to watch the mortalities.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. MSD card just says MSD. You still need the Nitrox card for the fills and Deep card if you go between 100'-130' --because those may not be among your 5 specialties. Can't think of any others you'd need-not Rescue, because that's required for MSD. So those are the three cards I keep with me. Nitrox is still the only one I've ever been asked to show.

I thought my Trimix card would get that job done ... till I ran into some idiot who wouldn't give me a nitrox fill ... because nitrox isn't trimix ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[String]

Generally at a dive centre if someone comes in, shows 1 card and wants to dive they'll be fine. If someone walks in and has a wallet stuffed with dive cards and insist on making you see most of them to go on the same dive you can pretty much guarantee they'll be awful in the water.

But in my opinion the case is even worse with so-called "Advanced" divers (with as much as 9 logged dives). Though most of those I met were lucid about themselves as divers.

That's the divers not agency, its "Advanced OPEN WATER" or "Adventures in diving". Only the egos decide to call it advanced. And you can be it with as few as 8 dives!

 

[Kern]

actually, I Have couple of dive slaves. They are called children.....:cool2:

Wouldn't dive masters be cheaper?

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Interesting example, but in my opinion not specific from MSDs.

That can and does happen from AOWDs all the way to DMs, OWSIs and more (whatever the agency). And from OWDs as well, provided they have more than a couple of logged dives.

A very good point about MSDs is that this certification shows they tried to improve themselves as divers (how successfully is another topic).

A terribly bad point about MSDs is the marketing craziness of calling them "Master" divers. Some people get to believe this stupidity and take the name for real, though a successful training should create the right attitude and make them well aware of their limits and that we ALL are small in front of the sea. 50 dives or even 100 don't make an experienced diver, and even a diver with thousands of dives may get in real trouble, for instance in an unusual environment or in unusual circumstances.

But in my opinion the case is even worse with so-called "Advanced" divers (with as much as 9 logged dives). Though most of those I met were lucid about themselves as divers.

The real culprits behind this are marketing guys, or aren't they ?

I absolutely agree with all of that.

Pretty much ... I've discovered that the farther "down the road" I go with my scuba education, the more "road" I see in front of me. I don't think there is an end ... we each just decide how far we want to go ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

My students and other divers seem surprised that Erick and I are always taking further courses or sitting in on the extended range or trimix courses or whatever is going. I absolutely believe in continuing education. I certainly have a lot to learn. Everyone does. There is always something new to work on. That is the fun.

I thought my Trimix card would get that job done ... till I ran into some idiot who wouldn't give me a nitrox fill ... because nitrox isn't trimix ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Wow..... just wow....

Wouldn't dive masters be cheaper?

Upon reflection....... YES!