Need Opinion on Regulator Package Options

[Bierstadt]

It is always easier to have someone else do something. More or less. It can often be the right decision. I bought Deep6 regs because I think they are good regs and excellent value. I am the kind of person who wants to completely understand his life support equipment and with Deep6 I was able to take the class and learn a great deal. I am confident I can service my regs and will do so once I have all the tools.

That being said, I would never suggest this is for everyone. Plenty of divers are best served by getting the most widely serviced name-brand regs and adhering scrupulously to the service schedule for their diving life. Others are going to consider reg service as a critical diving skill and get the training and tools and experience to do it themselves. I would just suggest being honest with yourself. If you regard reg service as a meaningful skill to possess as a diver, go with Deep6/etc and plan to get the training when you are ready. Until then, send them to Deep6/a trained service tech. If you don't, then get anything you want and no worries. Deep6 are good regs, but there are plenty of other good regs out there. It's hard to beat a Scubapro Mk25. Ultimately it is all about you and the diving you do. That's my 2 cents.

 

[Centrals]

@rsingler - I hear you on what you're saying and since i'm not trained in servicing any scuba related gear I can imagine it will always be easier and potentially safer to have someone with far more experience help me. It is great to have the option though of being able to learn and be involved in my own equipment. Even if I did take the training and got all the tools to do the work myself I'd imagine I still would have someone more knowledgeable then me in the field to take a look at it until I felt very confident regarding repairs on my own.

It is NOT as easy and simple as some of them made it!
This is a slow learning process and expertise advice is crucial. And there is NO short cut.
I am glad that I stick with Apeks, same 1st and 2nd stage service kit for all their common models. The only special tool is the C-spanner.

 

[stuartv]

Getting back to the OP....

- DGX is a great place to buy from. They have THE BEST Return Policy in the industry. It is unlimited. Literally. For example, if you buy Deep6 regs from DGX and 5 years later Deep6 is out of business or DGX is no longer partnered with them and the Deep6 DGX reg is no longer in production, you still have the option to return your regs to DGX for a full store credit.

Returns & Refunds | Dive Gear Express®

- I have a set of Dive Rite XTs for my doubles. I bought them brand new from DGX a couple of years ago. I will not be buying more. After a bit over a year, with not very many dives (30 - 40, maybe), they started having a slow leak. Slight bubbling from the second stage. I figured, "they're over a year old. May as well get them serviced."

This video is one I shot in my garage AFTER just getting them back from being serviced. It is showing an Intermediate Pressure gauge, which should not ever go above 145 psi. You can clearly see it steadily running up to over 200 psi.


I took it back and the shop (to be clear - not the shop where I work now) rebuilt them again. They seem to be okay since then. But, I overheard a friend of mine talking about his Dive Rite regs one day when we were parked near each other at the local quarry. He had the same regs and the same problem. The shop (the one were I work now) rebuilt his and still had the same problem. They sent it back to Dive Rite who sent a brand new replacement 1st stage. That one immediately had the same problem. They sent it back. That was months ago. Dive Rite still has his reg. They haven't replaced it, fixed it, or admitted to any problem.

I/we have a couple of theories as to what the problem(s) is/are. But, it's somewhat irrelevant. The point is that there clearly is some kind of issue with the DR XT regs and DR is not doing anything about it.

If mine have another problem, instead of having them rebuilt locally again, I will contact DGX to see about going through them to get the problem addressed. Or I will return them for a refund of store credit. DGX has PLENTY of other gear for me to spend that money on!

- My shop does not have anyone on staff that is certified to work on Deep6 regs. Because of the liability of working on regulators that you are not trained and certified on, my shop will not service Deep6 regs or any other brand where the service tech is not trained and certified for that brand/model.

- I had ScubaPro reg tech training recently. One of the points the trainer made was to really emphasize that if you are learning to work on regs just so you can service your own every year or two and that is the only time you're going to work on regs, you should NOT do it. Perhaps he was being overly dramatic. But, I think the points @rsingler made jibe with this concept. Regs are pretty simple and straightforward to work on. But, there are definitely little tiny subtle things that make important differences in the results. Do you really want to take a class, wait a year or two, work on your own regs and hope you remember all the subtle points, and then depend on your own work when you spend a pile of money to go on a diving vacation? Just something to think about. There MAY actually be something to the idea that real, actual experience in working on regs does have value. Even if you have had training, it still might be better to let someone else service your regs. The trick is to find someone whom you can trust to do a good job.

 

[rsingler]

Getting back to the OP....

- DGX is a great place to buy from. They have THE BEST Return Policy in the industry. It is unlimited. Literally. For example, if you buy Deep6 regs from DGX and 5 years later Deep6 is out of business or DGX is no longer partnered with them and the Deep6 DGX reg is no longer in production, you still have the option to return your regs to DGX for a full store credit.

Returns & Refunds | Dive Gear Express®

- I have a set of Dive Rite XTs for my doubles. I bought them brand new from DGX a couple of years ago. I will not be buying more.

So to indeed return to the OP, here's why I haven't yet bought a set of Deep Six to play with, despite the huge number of fanboys here on SB:
1) it's a tried and true design with some nice tweaks;
2) the Signature series indeed looks like an improvement worth the extra $$;
BUT...
Signature isn't available thru DGX with its nice return policy;
And the company is fairly new, though @cerich has a magnificent reputation here on SB.

What happens if this reg has a flaw like the one described for the Dive Rite reg above?
And will the company survive?
And since it's newish, what do we know about machining tolerances and chrome plating and HP seat stability?

In other words, do I want to be something of a guinea pig as this company grows and improves?

Well, to be fair, I think my answer is actually YES!

1) the price point is pretty amazing compared to the big companies
2) more important, they actually LISTEN to the diving community and let us buy parts and work on our gear like adults
I called Deep Six yesterday with a minor question, and surprisingly, was put through to one of their top people. We spent 45 minutes on the phone discussing design and philosophy and features.
Having that chat makes me want to support them. For the price of those regs, I think I'll drink the Kool-Aid and help them grow. In exchange, I'll hope that they maintain their customer responsiveness and give the big boys a run for their money. It's about time we pushed the lawyers aside and were allowed to tinker with our gear the way we tinker with our cars, for Pete's sake!

I might have a few quibbles. It would be nice to have an adjustment screw inside the 2nd's adjustment knob like a G260, so lever height doesn't fall with increased cracking effort (unless you bend the lever like the old G250). And the first stage doesn't appear to have a removable orifice! That could be the kiss of death for a ham-fisted DIY'er who nicks the volcano.
But both those options would increase manufacturing cost and hence, price. Maybe once they're a bigger company...

It's a cinch that new divers like the OP can't trust the industry publications to guide them. I gather that Scubalab didn't rate the Signature very highly this year, even though the second stage design is a tweak over a nearly exact sister reg that did well the year before. And I gather that Deep Six can't reproduce Scubalab's reported results on the ANTSI machine.
As far as I'm concerned, those publications just rotate the "Editor's Choice" awards around, with more weight given to their advertisers.
That's okay. I'm going to order a set and play with it. I've wasted more money on eBay regulators than I'll spend here. How nice to just order a service kit without hassle!

To answer my own question, I think the OP has made a good choice.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I'm a HOG and Deep Six reg tech instructor.

I can't speak for other instructors but normally my course is a day and a half. We cover all the 1st and 2nd stages for HOG and with Deep Six, since there is only actually one 1st and 2nd, it can be done in a day but why rush?

I've certified nearly 30 techs and teach group and private classes. The last one was in mid-February and the three students came to SW Pa from New Jersey, Connecticut, and Central PA. We covered complete evaluation, tear down, rebuild, testing and troubleshooting procedures.

BTW, if you are willing to come to me, a private class is the same price as a group class - 275.00- and I teach the class on demand. You tell me when you want to take it. If I'm not diving you send a deposit and that's your weekend. I will open it up to others but if no one else signs up, you still get your class.

@rsingler The new HOG seconds all have a micro adjust on the breathing effort knob:=).

I'm also the author of the Deep Six Service manual.

 

[tbone1004]

@rsingler
@cerich has a return policy that's pretty damn good.
Machining tolerances, plating, etc is all kept tighter than the standard ODS regs. HP seats and the full parts kits are backwards compatible with the HOG D3, so nothing unique about the design. Materials choice is better, but the design is the same. If the company fails, there are still plenty of soft parts available out there.

As to the removable HP crown, Chris went down that road with the D3 and it was annoying at best and took it out. Unsure on the adjustment in the knob, but if the D3 has it, then he can put it in the Deep6 if he wanted to.

 

[cinquecento]

Thank you all for the information! I was very close to going with the D6 signatures because I was very much convinced. I have been comparing and contrasting various reg sets and the D6 had everyone pretty much beat at having a full single tank setup @ ~$600. Then suddenly I peaked into DGX as I was grabbing a few things and saw that their DR XT full set was on sale for $499 flat (long hose set). I jumped at it immediately and I'm glad I did because a few hours later it jumped right back up to $600. As far as i can tell the verdict is the D6 are better performers... but I've read many great things about the DR XT's.... of course except the issue a few posts above! I couldn't resist the $100 difference (more actually because of all the extras DGX includes with the set). This is my first regulator set and i'll definitely be diving these first in a pool before I take them to the big blue. Once again thank you everyone for the information and conversation.

 

[Marie13]

To go off @stuartv’s post.

SB loves to recommend people to work on their own regs. Even newbies. A lot of people like to work with their hands and tinker, but a lot do not. I dislike it. I’d rather read than tinker. I wrench on my own gear only to the point necessary (change out hoses, that sort of thing).

Yes, SB is the 1% for diving, but I suspect the number of divers who service their own regs is very small. I’ve got a good shop and I trust them. They can service my regs. I have no desire to.

 

[woodcarver]

While I love to fix stuff and design/build things, I don't work on my regs. Figured out pretty quick, while straight forward in design and principles, they are precision instruments. Since I would only work on 2 sets every other year, once a year if we could get more diving in, remembering all the little details would be difficult. My LDS works on AL daily and with free parts for life, not worth the risk of me screwing one up.
That being said, I am going to go through the equipment specialist course with them. They spend the day going through your gear and get into basic maintenance and field repair on your gear. Should be able to tweak something if needed and recognize when it needs a real tech.

 

[Bierstadt]

Congrats, you got a nice reg set. Now you just need to get wet and have fun with it!