Need Opinion on Regulator Package Options

[diversteve]

I can only speak from personalexperience - I was on Roatan a few years ago - diving with Coconut Tree Divers on a 3-4 tanks/day trup with my dive group.One morning on my 2nd dive I powered up my reg and something "popped" and it started leaking air badly.I sat that dive out and rode back to the shop and gave it to their tech to look at.He came walking over with it about 20mins.later while we were eating lunch and said - all fixed - no charge...I probably dove that reg 2 years after that b4 having it looked at again.

to be fair I do not know what he changed or if they're an Atomic dealer.

The tech I use in Phoenix - David Wilson at El Mar - has an excellent reputation in the southwest.I believe some of the other shops send their customers regs there also.

We do carry a backup reg - either an old Poseidon Jetstream or a Zeagle Envoy 1st stage - showcase demo with no dives on it - with a wrench/allen key I can use my Atomic 2nds if necessary. It packs a little better than the Jetstream...

i know you like to work on your own gear so many of ypur posts are from that perspective - I don't, generally won't and to be honest would probably not dive a reg I serviced, I'm not comfortable doing that.

to each his own. IMO if you are looking for the brand with the most dealers/service options worldwide it's probably still Aqualung or Scubapro.

 

[cinquecento]

@Dogbowl - This is great to hear! What i really don't understand is if a shop would outright deny or be overly un-helpful if you brought in a regulator that was not purchased by them or a brand not carried by them. It seems that purchasing gear via online shops is much more inexpensive/convenient then a LDS.

@oly5050 - If a shop decides not to deal with my regulator is it because of some type of proprietary knowledge of how the regulator is built (which i can't imagine it is because they offer the manual and repair kit for free-- referencing D6) or is it because the transaction of the regulator did not come from them specifically and now only get the transaction of labor from servicing it?

I understand that there will be an upfront cost for self-service should I choose to go with the D6 but there is something to be said with a company that is willing to help its clients with servicing their own equipment. I like to have options- whether I choose to send my regulator to get serviced by D6 themselves or a local shop OR be self-sufficient and manage to do it myself. Also considering the first servicing is free from D6 plus free repair kit is a major bonus.

@TBone - Thanks again for the list of tools needed; will look into all of this.

 

[tbone1004]

@cinquecento some can be frustrating to deal with, but the good ones aren't. That said, they may charge you for some things they might not have if you purchased it there, but that's because they deserve to make money. If you're a regular customer, did training there, get fills there regularly, they should be good to you, but unfortunately many aren't.

if the shop refuses to service them, it is likely because they are not factory authorized to work on them which may or may not be an issue with their insurance company. Learn to DIY if you're so inclined and don't worry about it.

first service from D6, while free, is probably at least 3 years out for you if you take care of them and rinse properly after diving in the salty stuff

 

[rsingler]

Maybe I'm being a spoilsport.
Yes, the physics are dead simple. Yes, the tools required are not over the top expensive. Yes, I service my own gear, and have worked for local shops for a long time on the side. Yes, divers who frequent SB are probably more likely to be self-sufficient inquiring minds.
But what occurs to me is that as good as you and I might be, @tbone1004 , there are LOTS of subtle tricks and tips we have learned over the years.
If a new diver wants to buy gear he can service himself, he should expect to make a few mistakes along the way, and some of them can be costly, like using a double hook pick on a recalcitrant o-ring, only to scratch the land and have an unfixable HP leak. I'm all for this, and love to share the wisdom. But let's be realistic. There are far more folks like @diversteve out there.

I think whenever we recommend that interested DIY'ers take on self-service, we should add a caveat: what you're doing is simple but INCREDIBLY PRECISE. If you don't have the personality for that level of attention to detail, don't start down that road. Easiest example? A free flowing second stage at the dive site. A novice just "twists that screw there in the hole" and bingo! The leak stops. Except because he turned the orifice a third of a turn instead of 1/24th of a turn the reg now breathes like cr_p and the lever flops and the air delivery is half of what it could be. A potential safety issue?

Oh. And he just "fixed" it for his buddy, who is amazed that the leak stopped so "simply."

I'm jes' sayin'.

 

[tbone1004]

@rsingler that's why the factory service courses that are available from Poseidon, HOG, and Deep6 are so great. Anyone can take the courses and learn the same way that the guys in the shops do to service those regulators.

 

[rsingler]

Agreed. But you gotta add that you didn't go into the seminar knowing nothing about reg service. A 2-8 hour clinic doesn't cover half of the subtle stuff, because that's assumed to be common knowledge. Even Scubapro, that offers three levels of training, doesn't teach you how to use a pick.
We're on the same side, Tom. But there are a LOT of bad service techs out there. It's why we do it ourselves. The law of averages says that there is probably going to be the same percentage of bad DIY'ers, too. And that's a little scary. So I say, lets just make it sound a little harder than it is, when we encourage interested DIY'ers to jump into these waters. Because when you count the subtle stuff, it IS harder than it looks.

Case in point: Replacing power inflator hose o-ring

 

[oly5050user]

@Dogbowl - This is great to hear! What i really don't understand is if a shop would outright deny or be overly un-helpful if you brought in a regulator that was not purchased by them or a brand not carried by them. It seems that purchasing gear via online shops is much more inexpensive/convenient then a LDS.

@oly5050 - If a shop decides not to deal with my regulator is it because of some type of proprietary knowledge of how the regulator is built (which i can't imagine it is because they offer the manual and repair kit for free-- referencing D6) or is it because the transaction of the regulator did not come from them specifically and now only get the transaction of labor from servicing it?

I understand that there will be an upfront cost for self-service should I choose to go with the D6 but there is something to be said with a company that is willing to help its clients with servicing their own equipment. I like to have options- whether I choose to send my regulator to get serviced by D6 themselves or a local shop OR be self-sufficient and manage to do it myself. Also considering the first servicing is free from D6 plus free repair kit is a major bonus.

@TBone - Thanks again for the list of tools needed; will look into all of this.

Many LDS will not work on certain brands because they are not factory authorized. May be considered a liability if something happens. We service most if not all major brands and have full time and part time techs. Several Other LDS and fire departments police depts and federal agencies send gear to us for service. All different manufactures,models. Does not matter where it was purchased.

 

[oly5050user]

@diversteve I really really don't like the "service worldwide" crap that is often talked about. You are going to be lucky if they have the parts in stock, and with most regs requiring a 2 week turnaround, is it really that big of a benefit? What happens if yours kicks it on a liveaboard? In either circumstance you're missing at least the next full day of diving waiting on your reg to get back and paying a massive premium to get it done overnight all while getting done by a tech that you have no background info on.
That's about the last thing I would ever do. If you're that concerned, carry a spare first stage since that's likely what is going to fail, or just use a rental reg.

That said, most LDS's, even if authorized dealers, don't have full time service tech's on staff and many send regulators off to another entity to get them serviced. If they're going to do that, just learn to tweak them yourself and send them off somewhere for service

True. There are LDS that do not have techs on staff full time. We do. We have 3 or 4 LDS , along with federal agencies, fire and police send gear to us for service. Turn around can be next day or 2 week, depends on what the need is and line up.

 

[oly5050user]

@oly5050user the training and tools is less than $500, far less than the labor spend on any regulator with free parts for life, plus if you want to DIY service, Sherwood won't let you do that. On top of that, you have to have proof of service every year or you lose it, which is at least $75 for a regulator set. That adds up real fast.

Required parts to service a Deep6 reg
Allen keys-every diver should have them
IP gauge-every diver should have them
O-ring picks-every diver should have them
O-ring lube-every diver should have that

Simple green-every adult should have that
Ultrasonic optional but cheap at Harbor Freight for like $80 and you can clean your wifes jewelry with it
Pin spanner-like $20
Course-$300 IIRC

That's it. So what big money on tools is there? $75/year on labor, vs $400 on class and tools is a 5 year ROI. That's a no brainer on something that will easily last 20 and the Deep6 regs are a lot nicer than the Sherwoods to boot

Tools are inexpensive, can do with tools found in a home most times except or simple intermediate pressure gauge which can be inexpensive as well. True Sherwood will not sell you parts. To keep parts for life you are wrong. Need simple inspection every year, cost here is $25, includes tweaking to meet specifications, every second year is annual service, cost here is $59. Miss a inspection or service date free parts for life not valid for that year, will be reinstated on next annual service date at no charge. I found many divers do not know how to tighten, loosen a screw today (usually millennials) much less do their own servicing, see commercial on tv where driver has a flat tire does not know how to replace with spare tire "what's a lug wrench?"

 

[cinquecento]

@rsingler - I hear you on what you're saying and since i'm not trained in servicing any scuba related gear I can imagine it will always be easier and potentially safer to have someone with far more experience help me. It is great to have the option though of being able to learn and be involved in my own equipment. Even if I did take the training and got all the tools to do the work myself I'd imagine I still would have someone more knowledgeable then me in the field to take a look at it until I felt very confident regarding repairs on my own.