I like this idea.
Not part of Greater China
- Thread starter Wantonmien
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I like this idea.
OP
Wantonmien
Contributor
Iztok, I think the items, words and pro's I placed are very rational, and not for a moment do I (or it seems a few others) think my request is irrational. Tawan is not considered as part of China to anyone living on the island, and to get a little more input from Taiwanese divers and gleen a bit more knowledge of Taiwan dive sites, I think a "Taiwan only" forum would be of benefit.
So Iztok, what's the big deal in my asking for a seperate location on a global forum, and why do you appear so negative to the request ? Are you from the mainland or were you kicked out of Taiwan or something
Bear in mind I'm not Taiwanese, but most certainly see the mainland and Taiwan as different countries. Cheers
Iztok, I think the items, words and pro's I placed are very rational, and not for a moment do I (or it seems a few others) think my request is irrational. Tawan is not considered as part of China to anyone living on the island, and to get a little more input from Taiwanese divers and gleen a bit more knowledge of Taiwan dive sites, I think a "Taiwan only" forum would be of benefit.
So Iztok, what's the big deal in my asking for a seperate location on a global forum, and why do you appear so negative to the request ? Are you from the mainland or were you kicked out of Taiwan or something
The United States does not recognize that Taiwan is its own independent state and "acknowledges" that it is part of China.
By its own constitution you should refer to it as Republic of China if you refer to it as a country/state. So by your own argument forum should be "Republic of China", agreed?
I am not tied positively or negatively to ROC or PRC.
Idea about body of water naming is positive one in my opinion.
OP
Wantonmien
Contributor
Iztok,
I hear what you say, but it is dragging it into the political quagmire, a vicious circle, and it should stick with simple fact as noted by others (as well as me) in this forum Taiwan as an island sitting in a nice warm ocean has a large active diving community, whereas mainland China does not.
Take a look at the serious request from someone here - http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/greater-china/358047-statistics-divers-china.html Simple question, but note that no feedback arrives from mainland China, whereas if someone asked for similar stats about Taiwan, I'd pretty much guarantee some feedback would be forthcoming.
As stated before, if a (free to provide) "Taiwan only" little location appeared in the Asia part on forum, I'd like to think we could hopefully / gradually get a few local Taiwanese divers contributing, regardless of which country politically recognises the island, as lest we forget we are talking about a place for divers, not politics, and your average Taiwan diver (and majority of the few contributing to this thread) see the current forum location of "Taiwan" as part of "Greater China" as incorrect.
As for "split it by ocean" - I wonder if all know which ocean they are in, I doubt it somehow.
As for "PRC" or "ROC" - again I wonder if all would know the difference or recognise which is which, and again I doubt it.
As for a forum dedicated to "Texas" I see it's got a long bit of coastline on the map - so maybe the Texans should request it, but that's not my call.
Cheers
I hear what you say, but it is dragging it into the political quagmire, a vicious circle, and it should stick with simple fact as noted by others (as well as me) in this forum Taiwan as an island sitting in a nice warm ocean has a large active diving community, whereas mainland China does not.
Take a look at the serious request from someone here - http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/greater-china/358047-statistics-divers-china.html Simple question, but note that no feedback arrives from mainland China, whereas if someone asked for similar stats about Taiwan, I'd pretty much guarantee some feedback would be forthcoming.
As stated before, if a (free to provide) "Taiwan only" little location appeared in the Asia part on forum, I'd like to think we could hopefully / gradually get a few local Taiwanese divers contributing, regardless of which country politically recognises the island, as lest we forget we are talking about a place for divers, not politics, and your average Taiwan diver (and majority of the few contributing to this thread) see the current forum location of "Taiwan" as part of "Greater China" as incorrect.
As for "split it by ocean" - I wonder if all know which ocean they are in, I doubt it somehow.
As for "PRC" or "ROC" - again I wonder if all would know the difference or recognise which is which, and again I doubt it.
As for a forum dedicated to "Texas" I see it's got a long bit of coastline on the map - so maybe the Texans should request it, but that's not my call.
Cheers
Hi another two cents. I have lived in Taiwan for the past 26 years, and have been diving here throughout that time. People in Taiwan call it Taiwan and not the ROC because the title ROC is a throwback to when Chiang Kai Shek came to Taiwan in retreat from communist forces with the then ROC government to form a 'government in exile' on Taiwan. His intention was to recover the 'mainland' as China was called, overthrow the communists and restore his rule over China. This ambition long faded away anfd the present government on Taiwan is now making overtures with trade agreements with China. If you look at any goods manufactures in Taiwan it says quite clearly on the label 'Made In Taiwan', not 'Made in the ROC'. America does not 'recognise' Taiwan as a country because China is a permanent member of the UN and rigorously objects to anyone 'recognising' Taiwan. It is a matter of diplomatic and trade convenience that America does not 'recognise' Taiwan. However the fact is the USA fully supports Taiwan as a fine example of democracy and a bulwark against communism in Asia. This can be judged by the fact that there are literally dozens of military contractors from USA and European companies working here in Taiwan training the military and installing weapons systems. Taiwanese military officers regulary attend military schools in the USA to learn fighting strategies. I myself was part of an European team training divers for mine clearance back in the early 90s. The vast majority of people on Taiwan do not think of themselves as Chinese but Taiwanese and you could get into big trouble here if you suggested anything else. As I said in my earlier post there is no decent diving in China and I doubt if you will ever see a mainland Chinese person ever post on this board. You would however probably see some Taiwanese divers posting here if Taiwan was not listed under 'Greater China', to them this is an insult. Is diving in Taiwan different from China? You bet it is, the variety of diving here is too great to go into now but you can check out my web site if you like for more info. But how about 50m vis on Orchid Island and schooling scalloped hammerhead sharks on Green Island in winter? Awesome muck diving along the north east coast with everything from Blue-ringed octopus to Ornate Ghost Pipefish, Leaf fish, Frog fish, dozens of nudibranches and Lacy scorpionfish?
I fail to see how anyone who admires democracy and freedom of speech could go against Taiwan being given a spot on the board. Are we trying to appease the communist Chinese here too?
Cheers and safe diving.
You do understand the irony of your statement right?
Democracy is rule of the majority.
Constitution is the one that guarantees free speech.
Two are contrary to one another. If we depended on the democracy we could easily get freedom of speech removed.
1st articke of your constitution:
That is 1st article of your constitution.
Taiwan is not a country according to its own constitution it is called POC. Your arguments used were for POC you just failed to inform (or didn't know? - don't know which one is worse) that you made an error in the naming.
I don't think Taiwan is appropriate considering proper name of the country (assuming we could potentially agree it qualifies as a country) is The Republic of China. (there are more than just island of Taiwan in ROC)
I don't understand why would you object to ROC as it is in fact what you were arguing for except you incorrectly identified it as Taiwan.
GrumpyOldGuy
Contributor
Sorry, but I have to ask Itzok why he has his panties in such a twist about allowing a forum for a group of divers for their country/island/region without sharing the name of their oppressive neighbor who desires to take over their island.
We are not debating anything of major consequence, but rather we can to treat a request from some of our members with respect or do we shove them in the corner and ignore them because they are not recognized officially as a country by the political powers to be.
Maybe I am not rational or logical enough to Itzok, but to me this simply being polite and understanding of the situation. It is not appeasement because we are not under any threat, it is merely the right thing to do, like slowing down on the interstate an allowing someone to merge in rather than blocking them saying "I have the right of way"
We are not debating anything of major consequence, but rather we can to treat a request from some of our members with respect or do we shove them in the corner and ignore them because they are not recognized officially as a country by the political powers to be.
Maybe I am not rational or logical enough to Itzok, but to me this simply being polite and understanding of the situation. It is not appeasement because we are not under any threat, it is merely the right thing to do, like slowing down on the interstate an allowing someone to merge in rather than blocking them saying "I have the right of way"
OP
Wantonmien
Contributor
Iztok,
Not quite sure what you are on about above, where is POC ????
We are takling about creating a place for "Taiwan" related diving info to be collated, as throwing it into a pot of other locations in the Far east simply complicates a simple scenario in that Taiwan, is, like it or not according to google earth and my atlas a little island that is not connected to mainland China.
PS - do you have a tattoo 我爱瓷 ?
Sorry, I meant ROC. You are arguing for ROC and forget or deliberately not inform readers and use Taiwan instead.
No, I don't have tattoos of any kind.
Republic of China would be more appropriate based on your own arguments.
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