Open Source Instruction for Entry Level Scuba

[MXGratefulDiver]

The online portion is simply a way for them to take responsibility. How many times have you seen students finish their course with pristine books that look like they have never been opened? Any instructor with any kind of value does not take a students word for reading books, watching videos or learning online, they just hope they did. Until you review, evaluate and test that student, you don't have a clue what they learned. But usually, they don't do much on their own.

I'm a bit old-fashioned, in that I still insist on a stand-up portion of the training. This helps both me and the student in several ways ... not least of which is to assure that a student has truly understood what the academics are intended to convey. That doesn't mean I eschew online training, or a student's responsibility to learn. Before class begins, I issue class materials to my students with the instruction that they are to read and/or view the material before class begins ... this is prerequisite. I don't care whether they read the book, watch the DVD, or log online and take the class modules offered through NAUI's website ... all those options are available. But class time isn't to cover the material in the manual ... it's to discuss it, dissect it, answer any questions the students have about it, and expand on what is presented based on those questions. There's a big difference between knowledge and understanding ... knowledge comes from reading and/or viewing ... understanding comes from interaction, both verbal and physical.

I don't particularly care if a student has a book that's never been opened ... as long as their mind has been opened, and they demonstrate an understanding of the material that the class is intended to convey. Different people learn in different ways ... and more options is always better.

This is why, frankly, I wish you luck ... I'd just like to see it done in a way that's well thought through and provides an appropriate level of service to the people who will be taking your class ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

You are right on in my opinion. Online instruction should never be anything more than and adjunct to the instructor in the classroom. I completely disagree with the current process of cutting the instructor out of the classroom. This is why I want to provide as good an online program as possible, and then still be in the classroom where the rubber hits road. We have not eliminated the classroom portion of our courses, or shortened them. The point is that knowledge should be free and available and this is why I support online instruction in conjuction with good old classroom training.

Knowledge is already free and available ... right here on ScubaBoard. There is more expertise here ... covering more disciplines and various approaches to diving ... than any other source I've been able to find.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[awetmedic]

Good points, thanks for putting me in my place, I needed that. I will stop whining, or try my best, no promises.

 

[fjpatrum]

What you say is true enough, some of these are people who can't afford the sport, some can, and their only dive experience might just be with us. For some people just doing their open water is all they want to do, and with our group, they would be glad to do that. $450 for the course, then $200 equipment $500 for the open water including hotel and travel. Sometimes its a couple hundred less. But for some people even a $300 investment is something pretty significant..... like the 90% of people in the USA earning $50,000 and less.

I spent about $530 for all of the above that you list for over $1k and I live in a "high cost of living" area. If you live in Georgia, there are at least 2 quarries/lakes that offer diving with a max cost of $50 (two days at "Dive Haven") for entry. (Only $8 for 2 days at Lake Lanier). Figure another $130 for hotel and travel and your "$500 for open water" drops to $180.

As for $200 on gear, let me be the first to say that is ridiculous. You can get a mask fins and snorkel brand new for $45 without even trying hard. Just because dive shops charge a ridiculous amount for these things doesn't mean they can't be bought elsewhere for a more reasonable price. Now your $1150 has dropped to $650.

Yes, $300 is expensive for a lot of people, me included. The issue isn't that so many people stay away from diving because of cost (though many do), the issue is whether or not it will be of any benefit to them to certify with you if they only place they can dive is your pool.

I commend you for trying to consolidate resources and open up your program to different teaching methods, but that has its own drawbacks. Often times differing methods simply aren't complimentary. Or, how do you answer a student's questions if your instructor staff isn't familiar with a particular method? As others have pointed out, how do you certify your instructors?

If you're a non-profit, you charge what you want for the course, or offer it for free. PADI, NAUI, SSI and every other agency (as far as I'm aware) allows instructors to charge whatever they want for the course. Why not just have a strong cadre of instructors from the different agencies, (like many shops have) and just give your students the choice. Offer agency agnostic "training" seminars and the like on the side based on the open source material you have found and everyone wins. Students will be able to dive anywhere they want and still have the benefit of all the lofty goals you're trying to achieve.

 

[Superlyte27]

I'd not waste anymore energy on something destined to fail. And here's an example of why.

I run a dive shop. When people call in asking for instruction the first question they ask is: How much it costs. The second question they ask is: Is this for a PADI card.

New people fresh to SCUBA have only heard PADI and maybe NAUI. Good luck marketing against that billion dollar campaign.

Secondly.... I really won't let you dive with me with a mickey mouse cert card. Neither will a lot of charters. You better be a nationally recognized agency or it simply will not happen. I once went to Blue Springs State park and as a joke handed them my ANSI 98-01 Commercial Dive card for admission. They told me I couldn't dive there.

I'm not saying your goals are not attainable. But at what cost of time and money. I am an IANTD instructor. It's an agency that has been around for 30+ years. IANTD teaches everything from OW to Rebreather and beyond, but new students would rather have a PADI card than anything else. And it's a real organization. Yours in it's infancy is not. Cards cost money, printers for cards cost money, lawyers for liability, education, etc etc etc all cost money. Websites to provide instruction cost money and bandwidth. Insurance, advertising, etc. etc. all cost money. You'll never make this happen at the ripe cost of FREE.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Cool. Who accredits certification agencies that aren't RSTC/WRSTC members?

Good question. I don't know.

Do you accept NAUI certifications on your boat?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[redacted]

You can continue this banter back and forth til the cows come home, but the fact of the matter is, this isn't going to take off. And let me give you an example why.

I currently run a dive shop. Now, in this dive shop are two instructors. One is a PADI instructor, and one is an IANTD instructor. I teach the technical courses, and the other guy teaches the recreational courses. At times, when things are really busy, I'll teach some recreational courses under the IANTD name. Do you know how many people are dismayed that they are not receiving a PADI card, but are receiving an IANTD card?

That makes no sense at all!!!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'd not waste anymore energy on something destined to fail. And here's an example of why.

I run a dive shop. When people call in asking for instruction the first question they ask is: How much it costs. The second question they ask is: Is this for a PADI card.

New people fresh to SCUBA have only heard PADI and maybe NAUI. Good luck marketing against that billion dollar campaign.

Secondly.... I really won't let you dive with me with a mickey mouse cert card. Neither will a lot of charters. You better be a nationally recognized agency or it simply will not happen. I once went to Blue Springs State park and as a joke handed them my ANSI 98-01 Commercial Dive card for admission. They told me I couldn't dive there.

I was once denied access to a dive charter in Maui because I didn't have a PADI card ... all I had with me at the time were NAUI and YMCA cards. I walked across the street and signed up on a competitor's charter ... he didn't have a problem with either ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Superlyte27]

Cool. Who accredits certification agencies that aren't RSTC/WRSTC members?

The RTSC is recreational only. IANTD, NSS-CDS, GUE, NACD, and more are not part of this body of agencies.

 

[awetmedic]

Oh ya, I certainly do. I used to preach for the big guys and the value of their cards all the time, I believed it for decades. We are not looking to expand and recognition are not issues for us. I know we will never take off, especially without us trying. In the face of stiff competition, industry scrutiny and the ire of lds you can bet we will teach to a very high standard.