OW, Advanced, Rescue in 3 weeks

[mblazer]

I'm just curious -- those of you who are saying that Rescue should be postponed, what is your rationale for saying that? The Rescue class really doesn't involve a great deal of diving per se. It's mostly practicing emergency skills and learning ideas and techniques for getting distressed divers to the surface and out of the water. What does the student need to have learned from a certain number of dives of experience in order to do this class?

The first rule of the rescue course, or at least the one I was taught, is don't become a victim yourself in a rescue situation. As for "ideas and techniques for getting distressed divers to the surface and out of the water", those were, as the concept indicates, in the water, and even under the water. The class I took required at least some basic bouyancy skills, control of gas consumption, mask off drills, BCD off drills, etc. The concept stressed most often was panic control - not just of the victim but of the putative rescuer. You can't help someone in an emergency if you're freaking out yourself, and the exercises my instructor ran us through definitely tested that concept. I just find it hard to believe that someone with a dozen or so dives under their belt can competently do that. But my principal point is not whether or not someone can make it through the class, especially at a c-card mill. It's the aftermath, and the false sense of invincibility it creates.

Do you want to make rescue skills a required part of the OW class, as some agencies apparently do or did? That would be great, although it would probably substantially reduce the number of new divers. But then let's abandon the charade of a rescue diver "certification" absent some confirmed level of training and experience.

 

[redacted]

I think I would opt to enjoy more recreational dives at such a great dive location rather than taking a rescue course. You should have plenty of time this summer to do that training in NY where you should not be missing as much.

 

[Ste Wart]

The first rule of the rescue course, or at least the one I was taught, is don't become a victim yourself in a rescue situation.

A very good mantra. And one that a diver who hasn't taken a Rescue Diver course may be unaware of. So educate them.

The class I took required at least some basic bouyancy skills, control of gas consumption, mask off drills, BCD off drills, etc.

Skills that are learned during the OW course, no?

The concept stressed most often was panic control - not just of the victim but of the putative rescuer. You can't help someone in an emergency if you're freaking out yourself, and the exercises my instructor ran us through definitely tested that concept.

Then how do you gauge when someone is ready to take 1st Aid/CPR?

An emergency is an emergency, nobody knows how they will trully deal with them. Hence why we take courses to help drill ourselves to deal them.

I just find it hard to believe that someone with a dozen or so dives under their belt can competently do that. But my principal point is not whether or not someone can make it through the class, especially at a c-card mill. It's the aftermath, and the false sense of invincibility it creates.

Competently pull someone from the waters edge? Competently throw a life saver to someone?

Do you want to make rescue skills a required part of the OW class, as some agencies apparently do or did? That would be great, although it would probably substantially reduce the number of new divers. But then let's abandon the charade of a rescue diver "certification" absent some confirmed level of training and experience.

How would new divers even know? Most of them don't know what the OW course involves anyway.

 

[TMHeimer]

The first rule of the rescue course, or at least the one I was taught, is don't become a victim yourself in a rescue situation. As for "ideas and techniques for getting distressed divers to the surface and out of the water", those were, as the concept indicates, in the water, and even under the water. The class I took required at least some basic bouyancy skills, control of gas consumption, mask off drills, BCD off drills, etc. The concept stressed most often was panic control - not just of the victim but of the putative rescuer. You can't help someone in an emergency if you're freaking out yourself, and the exercises my instructor ran us through definitely tested that concept. I just find it hard to believe that someone with a dozen or so dives under their belt can competently do that. But my principal point is not whether or not someone can make it through the class, especially at a c-card mill. It's the aftermath, and the false sense of invincibility it creates.

Do you want to make rescue skills a required part of the OW class, as some agencies apparently do or did? That would be great, although it would probably substantially reduce the number of new divers. But then let's abandon the charade of a rescue diver "certification" absent some confirmed level of training and experience.

I pretty much agree with this. However, I recall that when I finished Rescue so early on, I certainly had no feeling of invincibility (should one ever???). That goes to personal responsibility. I agree that including rescue skills in a longer, more expensive OW course would reduce the number of OW students---in this era of "I want things done quickly". But that would be fine--hey, I don't own a dive shop.

To the OP: What parts after OW are required for you to participate in the reef survey? How deep is it, what are the conditions--current, etc?

 

[DevonDiver]

People disagree with calling this "zero to hero" - ok, call it "artificially heightened sense of capacity". Or just call it instant gratification.

I don't see anything "artificially heightened" about the training. It does what it says on the can....

PADI Rescue Diver Manual

The PADI Rescue Diver course goals are to:


• Increase awareness of diver safety.
• Develop divers’ abilities to anticipate and prevent problems as well as to manage them.
• Teach effective rescue techniques and first aid skills specific to diving.
• Prepare divers to manage diver emergency situations.
• Expand diver knowledge in preparation for PADI leadership-level training.

I see those as quite realistic goals, given a contentious instructor and a student who has legitimately earned certification in accordance with the stated standards and performance requirements of the OW and AOW courses.

I have seen far too many self-proclaimed, and duly certified, "rescue divers" who were a menace to themselves and everyone around them....that they are now a true blue, bullet-proof "rescue diver" or, just as silly, a "Master Diver". That person worries me - and I can only hope that, if I'm there and the need arises, I can help rescue him when the inevitable occurs.

No offence intended, but you seem to have some faulty assumptions based upon personal encounters you've had. Nothing in the Rescue Diver course should encourage a student diver to think of themselves as "bullet-proof" - to be honest, the course - when properly taught - tends to have the very opposite outcome. It heightens diver awareness of hazards and their realistic, often limited, capabilities to deal with them. It promotes 'humble', not 'arrogant'.

Neither does Rescue Diver certification imply any advanced standard of diving ability. You seem to think it does. Again, that's a faulty perception.

 

[TSandM]

My reaction to my Rescue class was to decide that I NEVER wanted to be involved in an accident. That's been the reported response of all the students we've taught Rescue to, too. I don't think any of them have come out of that class thinking they were all that.

Some people are going to be arrogant. Educating them less is not going to change that.

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree with Devon. It's just silly for anyone to think they're bullet-proof, especially when it comes to the ocean (or lake, whatever). The consequences lie waiting for those who do. I have little sympathy.

 

[mblazer]

This has been an interesting academic discussion, but I think we may have reached something of an impasse -- and the law of diminishing returns. This thread went well off the track started by the OP, and that's my fault - my apologies. DevonDiver, you are correct - my perspective has been, to some extent, colored by personal experiences and observations. That's the thing about perspective - it's often personal. TSandM I agree with you too -- some people are just going to be arrogant, and teaching them less is not going to change that. In my experience, unfortunately, neither, necessarily, will teaching them more. But we can always hope.

The way I've gone about my training has worked for me, and will continue to do so as I advance. I am comfortable knowing that, if I'm faced with an emergency, I'll be able to deal with it without turning into a blubbering bowel of jello. Anyway, sorry again for all the spouting. TSandM, as I increase my stays in Seattle, heading toward retirement there, I hope we have a chance to dive together some day.

 

[USFpsychDiver]

A sequence of OW, AOW, Rescue, and I'd add Nitrox so the student would have a solid understanding of partial pressures of O2 and Nitrogen and effects on the body and brain, is Scuba Basics (some enterprising instructor could bundle them as such). It isn't the number of dives, it's demonstration of competence that determines whether the student is ready to move on to the next module, just like any other domain of study. You don't do Deep and Navigation until you can clear your mask and retrieve your reg; you don't train on how to gain control of a panicked diver until you can control your own buoyancy, etc. It's always struck me as a bizarre notion that training and education could do someone harm; a bad instructor maybe, who moves a student along too fast, before they've demonstrated mastery, or who instills poor attitudes, but training and education in themselves, well delivered, can only help.

 

[Frosty]

I'm just curious -- those of you who are saying that Rescue should be postponed, what is your rationale for saying that? The Rescue class really doesn't involve a great deal of diving per se. It's mostly practicing emergency skills and learning ideas and techniques for getting distressed divers to the surface and out of the water. What does the student need to have learned from a certain number of dives of experience in order to do this class?

Although Ive done only a fraction of the dives you have I feel qualified to answer this.
First of all-Not for a nanosecond am I saying don't do the three stages of padi training together. I am saying that a student can only absorb information so fast. IMO 3 weeks just isn't enough time to digest and put into practice all the skills needed.
Having just completed my own Padi rescue course I (for myself) was happy that I'd relearned dive skills to the point I could bring a "panicked" diver to the surface from 12m thrown in was the panicked diver was OOA halfway up and my instructor "stole" my octi so we had to do a shared air ascent.This meant I have good boyancy control for myself. Im comfortable with my gear etc. Or searching for a missing diver meant I have absorbed and used underwater navigation enough I'm not having to think about it._ie wheres the lubber line how do I ddive a box pattern etc.
Its a bit close to home with the two trainee divers that drowned in Lake Pupuke a little while ago.
They were on an intensive dive training program and in theory were well qualified for the dive.
They had "ticked the boxes" to being AOW qualified and were close to a professional qualification but over a very short time frame.
There were a lot of mistakes made that day that experienced divers just don't make.