PADI Bashers

[Web Monkey]

I have noticed a lot of people in many of the forms doing what I can only discribe as PADI Bashing and I would like to find out why.

Because PADI has led the way in shortening classes and relaxing requirements, which has led to entire generations of divers that are less qualified to dive and more likely to be unable to handle an emergency or unexpected situation than those that were trained earlier.

I am very new to the sport but am already hooked and can not ever see myself giving it up. But apparently I am not a good diver. This is because I was trained by a PADI instructor. Even worse, I was trained in two weekends ( Two very long weekends, but none the less only two). It dosen't seem to matter that I was given a manual and DVD when I signed up for my course and told to review both before I showed up for class.It was only PADI material. It dosen't matter that I scored 100% on my written tests. They were only PADI tests. It dosen't seem to matter that I can use my c-card to dive anywhere in the world (In my understanding) because it is only a PADI c-card.

This is all probably true, however by realizing that you can't learn everything you need to know in a couple of weekends, you're in a position to do something about it.

It's not a slap in the face for you, it's just recognition that two weekends probably wasn't enough time to teach you and let you practice:

• Good buoyancy skills
• Reasonable gas planning (how to determine how much gas you need and how much to reserve for emergencies and buddy problems, where to turn the dive, etc.)
• What to do if you're diving and your BC loses all it's air and can't be inflated or
• If the inflater sticks and won't stop inflating
• How to recognize that your dive is about to turn into something potentially dangerous
• How to handle a panicking buddy
• Or even how to stay with your buddy.

This isn't an all-inclusive list or even a good start.

There is much more to safe diving than can be learned even in an 8 weekend class. A 2 weekend class is just enough time to help you not kill yourself, as long as the conditions aren't too stressful and the DM does a good job.

There are still many people here who will always consider me an inferior diver even after I get more practice and certification because I am doing it under the pretence that PADI is a legitamate organization.

This isn't true. Nobody will ever see your C-Card except the guy who fills your tanks and the dive operator. Once you're in the water, you're only judged by your actions.

Terry

 

[MikeFerrara]

I dont think that equates to bashing either. But one cannot deny there is a very loud group of people here that bring NOTHING, and I mean ZERO, to scubaboard but their disdain to for the agencies.

Seriously, do the few individuals who steer every converstaion as to how much an agency sucks no matter what the issue count as bashing? Just curious. Some if these people have over 10,000 posts, and most of them are the same posts over and over and over. That is not an exaggeration.

I have said this before: it is a shame that is all they want to bring to such a wonderful resource as Scubaboard as they have so much more to offer divers than this.

I can't speak for anyone else but I can tell you why I post the same stuff over and over. It's because we keep seeing the same things happen for the same reasons over and over. The squeaky weel gets the oil.

Two more divers were killed at Gilboa this weekend in just exactly the same manor that we're used to seeing. Agencies and many instructors remain content to turn a blind eye to the whole thing while I see it as being pretty close to murder. These injured and dead divers are placed in that situation by what they were taught wrong and what they weren't taught at all...diving is safe and fun for the whole family...no need to waste time learning to dive and manage problems midwater and so what if a simple thing like a little free flow keeps wacking divers while the whole world acts like we've never seen it before.

You want to talk about spefic skills, how they are (or are not) taught and how it results in these same incidents over and over or do we want to just keep our mouth shut so we don't upset anyone by running down their favorite agency?

 

[MikeFerrara]

It has been said before.....who cares who you go through as long as you have a good, thourough instructor and conscious dive buddies that will help you with any fears, or issues, you might have underwater!

Dive Dive Dive
And continue your education! No matter what agency you go through!
Practice makes perfect
Just my .02

The thing is this...where do you expect an instructor to learn what it takes to be a good, thourough instructor? Many instructors had the same OW, AOW and rescue courses that you had. DM trainaing and instructor training is mostly just demonstrating entry level skills while kneeling. So, now we have an instructor who can do a really pretty job of kneeling but who is going to teach the diving and where are they supposed to learn it?

The things that aren't taught in entry level courses that some of us believe SHOULD be taugh are not taught at any level including at the instructor level. Unless the instructor has somehow broke out of that mole, he/she can't teach it because they don't know it either.

 

[Gombessa]

What is absolutely shocking about this thread is the fact that nobody led off with the emote.

 

[Thalassamania]

What is absolutely shocking about this thread is the fact that nobody led off with the emote.

We were waiting for you.

 

[GA Under Water]

::Edit:: Got it covered

 

[drbill]

As with any agency, it is largely a matter of whether you have a good instructor. There is no question in my mind that my OW certification from Los Angeles County back in the 1960's was far better than any course I've taken since. However, I have two PADI certifications as well... both from great instructors. No problem with them.

One reason PADI gets bashed (as a symbol for several of the certification agencies currently operating) is that it has greatly watered down the OW certification requirements from what they were before PADI existed IMHO. Of course their stated intent is to get more people diving.

My LAC OW course was three weeks long and involved a lot of clasroom and pool work, as well as boat and shore dives. The course covered much of what the current OW, AOW and Rescue Diver certs cover today. Of course we didn't have to learn anything about how to use an octopus, SPG, BCD, dive computer, etc. back then. The course was taught by a great instructor (Ron Merker, an icon in those days).

To the extent that dive training has been watered down to allow more people to enter the sport, I think it has been somewhat of a disservice. I'd prefer to see more intensive dive training, even if it meant fewer divers got certified. Hopefully they'd be better prepared.

Of course current training standards assume that dive training will be a continuing aspect of a diver's experience. In that sense there is something to be said for that approach. Divers should continue to gain experience, and additional training. I've been diving 45 years now, and still look for opportunities to learn.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I have to chime in here.

As Mike Ferrara stated, the PSTC is PADI, NAUI, IDC, YSCUBA, etc. Thye created the MINIMUM standards to achieve certification.

NAUI is not a member of the WRSTC ... http://www.wrstc.com/agency.php?country=usa

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[shellim123]

The thing is this...where do you expect an instructor to learn what it takes to be a good, thourough instructor? Many instructors had the same OW, AOW and rescue courses that you had. DM trainaing and instructor training is mostly just demonstrating entry level skills while kneeling. So, now we have an instructor who can do a really pretty job of kneeling but who is going to teach the diving and where are they supposed to learn it?

The things that aren't taught in entry level courses that some of us believe SHOULD be taugh are not taught at any level including at the instructor level. Unless the instructor has somehow broke out of that mole, he/she can't teach it because they don't know it either.

Examples?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The things that aren't taught in entry level courses that some of us believe SHOULD be taugh are not taught at any level including at the instructor level. Unless the instructor has somehow broke out of that mole, he/she can't teach it because they don't know it either.

Examples?

Well, to agree with Mike on this point ... basic gas management.

"End the dive with 500 psi" isn't gas management. It's a rule of thumb ... one that's rarely explained, and often blindly followed (if at all) without understanding why.

I've got over 30 C-cards from six different agencies, and it wasn't until I got into tech classes that anyone ever attempted to go beyond a broad definition of SAC rate and start talking about gas management as an integral component of the "plan your dive" we all heard about in OW. I didn't get it in any of the YMCA or NAUI classes I took for OW, AOW, SLAM, Master Diver, Divemaster, or Instructor. Nor did I see it taught in any of the YMCA, NAUI, PADI, or SSI classes I DM'd for during my apprenticeship.

FWIW - all of the agencies fall flat on that subject. More than half of the diver deaths that have occurred in my local area (Puget Sound) since I started diving involved divers running out of air. There's simply no reason that should be happening.

Edit ... I created, and provide free of charge, a gas management seminar to any LDS in our area who simply asks for it. I've had staff (instructors, DM's and store managers) attend who told me afterward how much they learned, and in many cases that they'd never really thought about it before. It's shocking to me that people can be out there teaching scuba without understanding something as fundamental as how to plan a dive around your gas supply.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)