PADI certification question

[boulderjohn]

My girlfriend's newly minted PADI OW card says "This qualification meets ISO 24801-2: Diver Level 2 -- Autonomous Diver Standard." I had to look it up. Basically it "recommends" that she dive to "20 m" along with other divers of the same certification level. Diver Level 1 recommends that the diver "dive to a recommended maximum depth of 12 m under the direct supervision of a dive leader." I interpret that as probably meaning that, according to PADI, she (Level 2) is qualified to dive deeper than 60 feet or under conditions beyond her training if accompanied by a "dive leader."

I do not see the basis for your interpretation in there at all. The only mention of a dive leader is for a Level I diver, and I said that in a previous post--a PADI Scuba Diver (level 1) must dive with supervision. There is no mention of a dive leader at all for level 2.

 

[Storker]

I do not see the basis for your interpretation in there at all. The only mention of a dive leader is for a Level I diver, and I said that in a previous post--a PADI Scuba Diver (level 1) must dive with supervision. There is no mention of a dive leader at all for level 2.

If there was, the PADI OWD cert given in my country would be more advanced than a "standard" OWD cert.

No matter whether you show up with PADI OW, CMAS 1* or any other cert which is considered equivalent, you'll be allowed on the boat, and there won't be any guide or DM holding your hand.

 

[JamesBon92007]

I do not see the basis for your interpretation in there at all. The only mention of a dive leader is for a Level I diver, and I said that in a previous post--a PADI Scuba Diver (level 1) must dive with supervision. There is no mention of a dive leader at all for level 2.

Here's what I read:

"Scuba divers at level 2 "Autonomous Diver" are qualified to dive within the following parameters unless they have additional training or are accompanied by a dive leader:

• dive to a recommended maximum depth of 20 m with other scuba divers of the same level,
• make dives, which do not require in-water decompression stops,
• dive only when appropriate support is available at the surface,
• dive under conditions that are equal or better than the conditions where they were trained."

Does that not mean that they are "qualified" to dive beyond the given parameters if accompanied by a dive leader?

I'm not saying that the dive op or DM can't or won't have their own rules, I'm just relaying what I read and what I think it means.

 

[boulderjohn]

"Scuba divers at level 2 "Autonomous Diver" are qualified to dive within the following parameters unless they have additional training or are accompanied by a dive leader:

Ah, you did not include that in your original message. That wording is absent in PADI policy, which does include both the part about training and an additional reference to experience.

 

[JamesBon92007]

Part of the problem seems to lie within the terminology that they are using on the C-Cards. I did not know if Level 2 Autonomous Diver was PADI specific so I looked up the term and found it on a EUF website (Austrian Standards) and it appeared to be a universal term, one which I'd never heard before. I think I need to locate the PADI specific info. I find it odd that they would use such a term if it wasn't universally understood.

 

[Storker]

you did not include that in your original message. That wording is absent in PADI policy

On my OWD card I can read:

"This qualification meets ISO 24801-2: Diver level 2- Autonomous Diver Standard"

I don't know about anyone else, but in my mind ISO standards trump PADI policy. Particularly if PADI states that the qualification meets ISO standards.

 

[boulderjohn]

Here is some information that might help.

This qualification meets ISO 24801-2: Diver Level 2 -- Autonomous Diver Standard."

The term ISO in the title refers to the shortened title of the International Organization of Standards. They adopted the common title from the Greek iso, meaning equal to avoid confusing shortenings in different languages. ISO attempts to set standards to which users generally agree. That way you can be sure the nut you buy in one store will fit the appropriate bolt purchased in another store. You may be familiar with the term from camera film.

It is not the only standards setting organization. Another is DIN, which has also worked on camera film standards (among many other things), and it also sets standards to ensure that certain scuba regulators match appropriate tank valves.

O
I don't know about anyone else, but in my mind ISO standards trump PADI policy. Particularly if PADI states that the qualification meets ISO standards.

The PADI wording is different, but it does not conflict with the ISO language.

(BTW, I used to be an ISO internal auditor for this sort of thing; in fact, I was in charge of our organization's internal auditing for ISO.)

 

[Storker]

Part of the problem seems to lie within the terminology that they are using on the C-Cards.

I disagree. ISO is the acronym for the International Organization for Standardization. It's the top body for standards. No-one trumps it. If you say that you comply to an ISO standard, there's no leeway. If PADI - as they do on my OWD card - say that they meet a certain ISO standard, every letter in that ISO standard is the minimum requirement. PADI policies can only require higher standards, none lower.

 

[RainPilot]

I agree with Storker. RAID is busy with ISO audits at the moment and there is zero wriggle room. It either is or isn't. That's according to the requirements of the RSTC as well.

 

[Storker]

The PADI wording is different, but it does not conflict with the ISO language.

You've lost me. When PADI says:

This qualification meets ISO 24801-2: Diver level 2- Autonomous Diver Standard

it means that a student has to satisfy any and every demand in ISO 24801-2 to be given an OWD card. There's no leeway. PADI is free to demand higher standards than those given in ISO 24801-2, but they can never demand lower standards in any situation as long as they state that a PADI OWD card "meets ISO 24801-2"