PADI certification question

[JamesBon92007]

The terms OW and AOW etc don't appear to have definite universal meanings, from what I am able to determine. I suppose that is why they are using the ISO term. Now we also have "Discover" and "Adventure." The definition of "Scuba Diver" has changed quite a bit over the years.

It's funny (or perhaps sad) that during all the years I was using film I never knew what "ISO" stood for.

 

[boulderjohn]

You've lost me. When PADI says:

it means that a student has to satisfy any and every demand in ISO 24801-2 to be given an OWD card. There's no leeway. PADI is free to demand higher standards than those given in ISO 24801-2, but they can never demand lower standards in any situation as long as they state that a PADI OWD card "meets ISO 24801-2"

So where is the problem?

 

[Storker]

ISO [...] is not the only standards setting organization. Another is DIN, which has also worked on camera film standards (among many other things)

You're muddling the water.

DIN (Deutsches Institut für Normung) is a national standardization organization. Just like ASA (American National Standards Institute). ISO is the international standardization organization. The world is - regrettably slowly, but still - turning from national standards to international standards. Which is why both DIN and ASA are long discontinued for camera film standards.

So where is the problem?

Like I said, you've lost me. What are you trying to say?

 

[Storker]

The terms OW and AOW etc don't appear to have definite universal meanings, from what I am able to determine.

Quite right. Which is why both PADI OWD and CMAS 1* refer to an ISO standard (which has a universal meaning). The only other PADI c-card I have that refers to an ISO standard is my EAN card. And I'd be very surprised if CMAS' nitrox card didn't as well.

None of my other PADI c-cards claim that they satisfy an ISO standard. Which means that if I want to know what they actually certify me for, I have to check PADI's policy. My OWD and EAN cards, though, satisfy (at a minimum) universal ISO standards. So I can check the ISO standard and read what minimum demands I'm supposed to meet.

 

[JamesBon92007]

Now I wonder just what "level" I'm supposedly certified to. Or, in my case, I might be a little bit off-level.

So, if someone was issued a PADI C-Card before they began putting ISO levels on the card would that mean that they are not necessarily certified to the same level as someone who has a new card that does state the level?

 

[Storker]

So, if someone was issued a PADI C-Card before they began putting ISO levels on the card would that mean that they are not necessarily certified to the same level as someone who has a new card that does state the level?

They might be, but you don't have any proof. In that case, you'll have to compare - line by line - PADI policies with the relevant ISO standard to find that out. Which is kinda cumbersome and one of the main reasons for ISO compliance.

 

[JamesBon92007]

Well, hopefully this is an improvement over what we had back in the dark ages when you either had a C-Card or you didn't. Back then we could do whatever we wanted except, as I like to say, something stupid.

I just looked at a chart of "Equivalent Diving Qualifications from Different Agencies" and the terminology is not very standardized. The main reason I'm interested in all of this is just so I'll have some idea what to expect when I take my newly OW certified girlfriend on a dive boat. With 10 open water dives including three drift dives I was surprised that at least one dive op (Cozumel) would require her to have a private DM on the first dive or two. Perhaps that would fall under the category of "unless accompanied by a dive leader" and she would no longer be restricted to 20 m.

 

[Neilwood]

To simplify the discussion a lot for the OP:
1) the OP took a Scuba Diver course which limits them to diving with a dive leader to a limit of 12m.
2) their next level is Open Water diver which allows them to dive with another suitably qualified diver to a recommended depth of 18m. This complies with the minimum level of the ISO for Autonomous diver level 2 - which means that anyone of that level from a recognised course worldwide should have that minimum level of expertise.
3) AOW then allows them to expand on that by giving a taster of further types of diving that may be of interest such as deep, navigation, boat etc. Due to the deep element it extends the depth recommendation to 30m.

What I take from my courses is that:
1) any depth stated is a recommendation only. No one can police it apart from on courses.
2) all subsequent courses from OW expand on that knowledge to allow the diver a better understanding of the risk involved with that particular type of diving and how to mitigate them.
3) Dive operators can and will have their own policies regarding them and while on their boat/trip, you have agreed to abide by their rules.

For example:
1) OW deals with an over view of navigation and some simple exercises. The navigation dive on AOW expands on this with some harder exercises and the speciality takes it further still.
2) Some of the issues of depth are dealt with in OW. They are expanded in AOW with the diver getting more understanding of narcosis , gas usage etc by going deeper. Deep expands further

 

[Storker]

all subsequent courses from OW expand on that knowledge to allow the diver a better understanding of the risk involved with that particular type of diving and how to mitigate them.

Not just the risks, but also the fascinating experiences you get by advancing beyond standard OWD diving. My AOW dives were Deep, Night, Boat, PPB and Nav. I liked Night, Deep, PPB and Nav, since they gave me something to build my advancement on. I don't think I'd be as fascinated with night diving so early in my diving career if I hadn't taken Night. It taught me proper light signals, and it showed me how fantastic a night dive can be. Our instructor told us to block our lights and wave our hand in front of our face. The mareel fireworks that set off really hooked me on diving in the dark. And the AOW Deep dive taught me how to night dive fairly properly.

 

[Neilwood]

Not just the risks, but also the fascinating experiences you get by advancing beyond standard OWD diving. My AOW dives were Deep, Night, Boat, PPB and Nav. I liked Night, Deep, PPB and Nav, since they gave me something to build my advancement on. I don't think I'd be as fascinated with night diving so early in my diving career if I hadn't taken Night. It taught me proper light signals, and it showed me how fantastic a night dive can be. Our instructor told us to block our lights and wave our hand in front of our face. The mareel fireworks that set off really hooked me on diving in the dark. And the AOW Deep dive taught me how to night dive fairly properly.

Yes I really should have said that it is not just about the risk but the rewards as well.