PADI Does Revoke Certifications

[Jim Lapenta]

When you submit a crossover ap you are required to state whether or not you are in any kind of negative standing from the agency you are coming from. How much they check to see if you are is kind of a grey area. Until you get up into the higher levels. Some agencies will check with your previous one. But I think that is at their discretion. OW instructors are a dime a dozen and a huge cash cow. Crossovers bring in lots of revenue as well. There may be red flags for some things. Others they rely on the honesty of the instructor for the most part. But if they find out that an instructor lied about it I'd hope they drop em like a hot rock.

The problem I see here, and it's a good one to have, is that no one got hurt. That may lessen the severity of the action against the instructor or it may not. What I don't like is that I knew this instructor and had done business with her a couple years ago and was on good terms with her. Then she seemed to drop out of sight until this stuff came up. Had not heard from her for a while. I also don't like that is seems like PADI wants to remove any indication you received any kind of training from her by removing the certs from your record (no record - nothing happened), then have you send the only record you have of anything taking place - your cert cards. That stinks to high heaven in this era of lawsuits that often hinge on records of something taking, or not taking place.

Bottom line is I'm sorry it happened to you. And if you ever get up this way I'd do your drysuit class for free because you don't need a card. You have one of those now. What it sounds like you do need is the knowledge and skills. That I can guarantee you'd get. Deep we could work something out but you would earn the card you got. And you'd know you earned it. 4 dives in 40 -45 degree water (what we have to work with up here), depths to 130 feet, with real dive skills.

 

[tracydr]

I'm wondering, Tracy N, did you have any doubts about entering an overhead environment with unfamiliar equipment? (drysuit) Did this seem like a good idea to you at the time? Did you do a weight check in the pool? Sounds to me like you did a "trust me" dive into the cave and you were lucky nothing worse happened.
Maybe it was a better learning experience than you realized. What not to do in an overhead environment?
I was pretty careful in my first few drysuit dives ( I'm still very, very new to the DS), not to go very deep as I wasn't confident that I had my bouyancy skills with the suit figured out.
Seems like knowing your gear and having perfected your bouyancy with it ( you said you had an uncontrolled ascent) that would be of utmost importance before entering a cave, even if you were following a so-called instructor?

 

[TracyN]

I'm wondering, Tracy N, did you have any doubts about entering an overhead environment with unfamiliar equipment? (drysuit) Did this seem like a good idea to you at the time? Did you do a weight check in the pool? Sounds to me like you did a "trust me" dive into the cave and you were lucky nothing worse happened.
Maybe it was a better learning experience than you realized. What not to do in an overhead environment?
I was pretty careful in my first few drysuit dives ( I'm still very, very new to the DS), not to go very deep as I wasn't confident that I had my bouyancy skills with the suit figured out.
Seems like knowing your gear and having perfected your bouyancy with it ( you said you had an uncontrolled ascent) that would be of utmost importance before entering a cave, even if you were following a so-called instructor?

First off the dive was not in a cave. It was in a cavern that is "deemed OW safe". OW divers, some with snorkels even, dive in this sink all the time. The overhead was not an issue. I never got a formal class as I've explained. This was basically a crash course in drysuit operation. She put me in her undergarment which is very buoyant and in my recreational rig with a single AL 80. I had 17 lbs of weight and it was barely enough to get me down. Normally I only need 6 lbs of weight to get down and maintain a safety stop in a 7 mil suit.

Fortunately when I strapped on my sidemount tanks and put 2 lbs of trim weight on each shoulder the drysuit worked perfectly. It may have been a little big which caused a bit more drag than I would have liked but until the thing blew up 3 weeks ago it was working fine and I was able to conduct my dives safely. I was happy to be warm for a change.

 

[OkByMe]

The way I see it, you lucked out. You are out 30 bucks instead of 500. The cards will bypass any liability lackeys in case you need use use any commercial facilities or service to accomplish your dive plans. Now you have an opportunity to learn and do so safely without the money grubbers getting in the way. Get the books and study up. Take the time to get to know your gear, make sure it is serviceable and understand the work-a rounds and practice them. Make sure your gear works for YOU, the suit fits, hose lengths, weighting, positioning and comfort adjustments and so on. Setup some dives with other divers who have demonstrated the abilities where you feel you are deficient (or they do). Don't feel timid about letting them know you are not comfortable with specific aspects of equipment use. There is no better training course for diving, but diving.

That is exactly how I learned without needing all the card bull. When I was in the Corps (1967) in the Mediterranean doing some amphibious training (Harris boat in-force beach assault) on Sardinia. After the exercise was over, I was hang'in out on the beach, when I bumped into some Navy Divers who were testing out all the gear... open circuit and re-breather, and I showed an interest in what they were doing. We had a bunch of chat-chat about how it worked and hazards of diving, things to do and not to do. Next thing I know, they offered to show me how it was done. Over the the next 3 days after duty shift, they had me under the water with close supervision and advanced me to using the re breathers. Had a great time, even gave them my Heineken ration (I don't much care for beer, I swapped cigarets for whiskey the locals had), and helped dispel the the rumor that the Marine Corps and Navy just don't get along.

Later in 78, it got to the point where I could not buy air without certification.. then along came Nitrox, and again certification. Plastic flying around everywhere trying to make recreational diving a long time career move for some, a money mak'in endeavor for the operators and dive shops and a pain in the ass for everyone else. So you got a pass, enjoy it.

 

[greatlakeswreckdiver]

I agree. I had only done some pool time in a dry suit with an instructor. Never did get the cert. Also do wreck diving and deep diving without the PADI cert. I believe in researching the safe way to do it and then practice. Some things you need the cards, like Nitrox, but in general I think these specialty classes are just money makers. I laugh at some of them like equipment specialty.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

 

[adutto]

PADI did not teach your class and was not paid for it. I do believe you are owed compensation, but that should come from the instructor or shop that gave you the class. If it was an independent instructor, good luck. If it was a shop, I would expect them to come through for you. Perhaps they will offer you free classes in compensation.

Free classes from the same instructor... Doesn't look like a good idea to me

---------- Post Merged at 02:45 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:45 PM ----------

PADI did not teach your class and was not paid for it. I do believe you are owed compensation, but that should come from the instructor or shop that gave you the class. If it was an independent instructor, good luck. If it was a shop, I would expect them to come through for you. Perhaps they will offer you free classes in compensation.

Free classes from the same instructor... Doesn't look like a good idea to me

 

[boulderjohn]

Free classes from the same instructor... Doesn't look like a good idea to me

---------- Post Merged at 02:45 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:45 PM ----------



Free classes from the same instructor... Doesn't look like a good idea to me

For those of you who are having trouble reading, I asked if it was an independent instructor or a shop. If it were a shop, I suggested that the shop would probably fire the instructor and give him free classes. It turns out it was an independent instructor who skipped town, so that one option was not available.

 

[SkimFisher]

Wait, wait, wait...start over...so what happened?

 

[TracyN]

Wait, wait, wait...start over...so what happened?

You can get all information from my first post. I got duped by an instructor who gave me certifications that I didn't earn and I reported it to PADI and I volunteered to relinquish relinquished them. The cards were really worthless pieces of plastic but since I didn't truly earn them I couldn't represent myself as such a diver.

---------- Post Merged at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:47 PM ----------

Update from PADI. They are really taking this seriously as they should. New divers don't be shy in reporting bad or unsafe instructors. Your effort is not in vain. However I feel like I'm on trial in Scuba Court, lol!

Dear Tracy,

We are currently conducting our inquiry and we had a three other questions to assist us in our inquiry.

1. Prior to your Dry Suit Specialty course with Ms. Treanor, had you used a dry suit before? If you had not used a dry suit prior to your Dry Suit Specialty course, did Ms. Treanor conduct any initial training in a confined water environment (such as a pool or in pool like conditions?)

1. Do you recall the amount of weight that you were using during the Dry Suit dive?

1. Other than the one cave dive you reported that took place with Ms. Treanor on 4/29/2012 at Little River Springs, and the Dry Suit specialty dive, did you participate in any other dives (either in a cave or not) with Ms. Treanor?

 

[sgl308]

If PADI said they revoked your certifications, then you are not certified as a deep or drysuit diver. They made some keystrokes on a computer and now you are not certified. That class never happened. If you don't believe me, have a PADI instructor do a diver search for you and he or she will be able to see what courses you completed. It won't matter if you have the cards in your possession or not.

Now as far as instruction goes, the deep dives should be over 100 ft. I don't think all of them need to be 100 feet or more, but one dive to 90 ft is no good.

For certification cards, PADI has gotten a bad rap for having dozens of specialties and courses they offer. If you want to collect cards, go ahead. I see it as a means to get more specialized training under the supervision of someone who should know what they are doing. It's a way to get more in depth knowledge on a given subject, and no one can revoke knowledge! There isn't a certification card from ANY agency that can prove how much knowledge you have on diving. I have seen divers with OW certs only who can put a divemaster to shame, and divers who are full cave/trimix/extended range certified that I would be scared to dive a 20 ft reef with.

And if you want to retake those classes, I can point out a few good instructors.