People not fit to dive

[MMM]

I would love to know how this person could possibly perform the exercises and scenarios required for the Rescue Diver class (pre-req to DM), to the same standard as everyone else. In particular, those parts where, you know, not only do you have to carry YOURSELF out of the pool, but also the victim, who, by the way, you also have to tow quite some distance across the water.

I didn't ask (or call her a liar). She WAS capable of walking, you know and had lots of upper body strength. In fact, she also participated in skydiving. She was a pistol.

 

[Thalassamania]

...

So here's my question.

At what point do you quit?

If you develop a condition that is a contraindication to diving such as COPD, you need to stop diving, if you do not you keep on diving. This is not a question of age, but rather of health, though some diving contraindications are more frequent in older populations.

 

[NudeDiver]

If you develop a condition that is a contraindication to diving such as COPD, you need to stop diving, if you do not you keep on diving. This is not a question of age, but rather of health, though some diving contraindications are more frequent in older populations.

See, now I disagree (big surprise, I know).

People do all kinds of things that are unhealthy. I would venture to say that the overwhelming majority of people in America engage in unhealthy activities. So, clearly, there is plenty of precedent for doing things that are not in your own best interest from a health standpoint. If someone wants to kill themselves by engaging in unhealthy activities - whether its diving with bug problems, smoking, race car driving, competitive crack smoking or anything else, I say more power to them. However, they shouldn't drag other people down with them. So, referencing the case above - if you end up with COPD, you should not necessarily stop diving - but you should stop diving on charters and with a buddy - reducing the the need for anyone else to have any liability or need to rescue you. That's only fair and reasonable. Be a solo diver - go have a good time.

I suppose one could make the argument of, "but you would be putting at risk those who have to go get your body out of the water" - but I would argue that such people signed up for and are often paid for doing just that, so they have no room to complain about it being unfair or unreasonable in any way.

 

[Thalassamania]

Nudie, you're reaching more than a little bit.

 

[NudeDiver]

Nudie, you're reaching more than a little bit.

Again? Damn.

 

[boat sju]

Hey... is someone playing a joke around here? No fair.

I'm not one of the nude bashers - really. But I don't think he ever "got it".

 

[Sas]

See, now I disagree (big surprise, I know).

People do all kinds of things that are unhealthy. I would venture to say that the overwhelming majority of people in America engage in unhealthy activities. So, clearly, there is plenty of precedent for doing things that are not in your own best interest from a health standpoint. If someone wants to kill themselves by engaging in unhealthy activities - whether its diving with bug problems, smoking, race car driving, competitive crack smoking or anything else, I say more power to them. However, they shouldn't drag other people down with them. So, referencing the case above - if you end up with COPD, you should not necessarily stop diving - but you should stop diving on charters and with a buddy - reducing the the need for anyone else to have any liability or need to rescue you. That's only fair and reasonable. Be a solo diver - go have a good time.

I suppose one could make the argument of, "but you would be putting at risk those who have to go get your body out of the water" - but I would argue that such people signed up for and are often paid for doing just that, so they have no room to complain about it being unfair or unreasonable in any way.

Yea I totally agree. I think people should be responsible for making their own decisions about the level of risk they want to take, as long as it doesn't impact unduly on others. If someone has COPD and wants to dive, go for it, and if they have a buddy who understands all the extra risk involved but still wants to dive with them, I am not going to say they can't... Sometimes I think people should not dive in certain locations if they are unprepared - like caves, for example, as that often impacts negatively on other cave divers when they die. But in general, I think people should be able to do what they want.

 

[bfw]

In America at least - if an op were to deny services to an elderly customer, regardless of any "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" signs or policies, they run a serious risk of an age discrimination lawsuit.

Age discrimination laws apply only to employment. I don't see anything in the OP about the guy applying for a job.

 

[oasisofmaragal]

Hey MMM, from your signature - outwit, outlast, outplay - you're going to be right in there with us when you're 90 and you don't dive below 35 feet anymore. I had the honor of diving with an 89 year old lady diver - she was a blast!

 

[bfw]

In the rush for greater growth and market penetration, some agencies have lowered the bar without pause, including certifying those with severe physical disabilities, and 8-10 year olds (ever stop to consider that dementia is often referred to as second childhood?) I've seen certified divers between the ages of 18 and 30 who were physically unfit, and ones who, if they were any dumber, would need watering daily. The only thing that is anyone's place is to choose not to buddy with someone they feel is unsafe, and if you're still burning with the desire to be a busybody, politely explain your objections to the diver in question, then back off. The only exception is if they're your child, parent, spouse, or maybe sibling. If you're a charter operator, have your attorney create an addendum to your release/assumption of risk for seniors to cover such considerations.

Grant others the same respect for their autonomy and decisions that you expect to receive yourself.